THE BOOK
Some of the ideas discussed in this blog are published in my new book called "The Stonehenge Bluestones" -- available by post and through good bookshops everywhere. Bad bookshops might not have it....
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Wednesday, 9 February 2022

The Mumbles Giant Erratic -- the sound and the fury.......

 



As they say, one does not know whether to laugh or cry.  One might as well laugh, but I am not going to be bullied by anybody, and I will defend myself.  And I'll do it here.

Rob Ixer has just launched an extraordinary personal attack on me in the discussion forum of The Megalithic Portal, a web site with which many will be familiar.  The web site published a write-up on the Mumbles boulder discovered by Phil Holden, which was based on the press release issued (with the full agreement of all three of us) by Phil, Katie and myself on 27th January 2022.

https://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=56283

In two very aggressive posts Rob accuses us of all sorts of things, but I am not going to get dragged into a slanging match on a public forum.  As far as I can gather, he is furious with us on the following grounds.

1.  He thinks we are trying to prevent access to the boulder for other researchers, by keeping the precise location secret.

2.  He thinks we are being biased and inaccurate in our description of the boulder.

3.  He thinks our press release is vastly inflated, and that the find is really of no significance whatsoever.

4.  He accuses me personally of being a "lone voice" in claiming any sort of significance for this boulder and for the relevance of the glacial transport thesis with regard to Stonehenge.

Let's address his accusations.  

First, the location.  Rob has revealed the precise location of the boulder on the portal web site with the sort of glee normally experienced by small children who have just discovered the secret hiding place of the chocolate biscuits in the kitchen.  He's published a large-scale map with a blue dot on it.  On his own head be it.  We have no problem with researchers knowing where the boulder is, but we were being vary careful with publicising it in view of its dangerous position between the tide marks, in an area of wet, slippery and jagged rocky outcrops.  Somebody might well get hurt.  We have now taken advice on this from the local authority and others  -- and the advice was that we should not be too specific in location details.  Too late now.......

Second, why the pretence that we are being biased and misleading? What would we have to gain from that?  Rob has published a series of photos of the boulder taken by a "competent Welsh glaciologist" -- making an absurd situation laughable.  Who is this mysterious person?  Who decided whether he or she is incompetent, or competent?  What on earth is the point in he or she trying to remain anonymous?   Our measured dimensions are a bit different from those of this mysterious expert, but as with all irregular boulders, it all depends where you put your measuring tape.  It's not just a simple triangular shape -- one end is flattened, and there is a twist in it, with a bulbous projection on one side.  We estimate the weight as more than 7 tonnes, but does anybody actually care whether it is 5, or 6, or 7, or 8 tonnes?  I doubt it. It is certainly a great deal bigger and heavier than the great majority of big erratic boulders which I see all over the place, which are generally smaller than 1m x 1m x 1m, weighing in at up to 3 tonnes.  We stick by our description of the "giant erratic" because it is on a par with others that have been similarly described in other parts of the world and indeed on other sections of the Bristol Channel coasts.  Rob pretends that three other "giant erratics" were described in the Bridgend BGS Memoir of 1904.  I know the literature well, and he has got that completely wrong.  The biggest of the erratics seems to have had a diameter of around 30 cms.  All that having been said, we are pleased to see the other photos of the boulder surface, which will all come in handy in interpretation.

Third, the question of whether we have vastly inflated the significance of this find.   In his rather bilious response, Rob is at pains to demonstrate that our press release greatly exaggerates the importance of Phil's boulder discovery, on the basis that it adds nothing that was not already known.  He has no doubt said this as well to media people who might have contacted him for a comment, and he clearly takes pleasure in having "shut down" a certain amount of press coverage.  Sad, but there we go.  We stick by what we said, since there are no known giant erratics or super-erratics from the west on the South Wales coast; those "western erratics" that have been recorded and described are all, as far as we can see from the literature, less than 40 cms in diameter and probably weigh less than a tonne.  There are bigger erratics (such as Arthur's Stone, reputed to weigh more than 25 tonnes) derived from the South Wales Coalfield and Brecon Beacons, but they have been carried southwards by glaciers connected to the Welsh Ice cap.  Ironically, in seeking to demonstrate that there is "nothing new" arising from Phil's discovery, Rob admits that he accepts that there was at one time a substantial ice stream that carried Pembrokeshire erratics of all sizes far up the Bristol Channel and into Somerset and Avon.  That's intriguing and quite heartening, since he and Richard Bevins in their bluestone provenancing articles refer (often quite gratuitously) to the human transport of the bluestones over and again, with hardly any mentions of the possibility of glacial transport. Somewhere or other there is a disconnect.

Fourth, the claim that I am a "lone voice" in the bluestone transport debate is simply absurd.  All of the earth scientists to whom we have spoken since Phil's discover are very excited by it, and all have seen immediately how significant it is.  I don't feel very alone at all when the other earth scientists who have accepted at least one incursion by Irish Sea Ice glacial ice as far east as Bath and the Somerset Levels include Judd, Geikie, Kellaway, Mitchell, Stephens, Bowen, Williams-Thorpe, Thorpe, Bevins, Synge, Lewis, Hunt, Gilbertson, Campbell, Hawkins, Kidson, Andrews and many others.  And those who have accepted the possibility that glacier ice actually reached Salisbury Plain -- and maybe Stonehenge itself -- include Kellaway, Williams-Thorpe, Jenkins, Watson, Hubbard, Bradwell, Golledge, Hall, Patton and Sugden.  Again, I could go on.  I wish that Rob would drop this absurd pretence that "it is established or accepted" that glacial transport of the bluestones was impossible, because somebody or other told him that around thirty years ago.

Finally, Rob appears to be mightily aggrieved that he has not been invited to examine our sample from the Giant Erratic, since he clearly considers that he is the only person qualified to do so. In fact, he even questions my truthfulness when I say that we have samples. He has repeated the claim that we have no samples on the Magalithic Portal.   That's a cheap insult, for which he should apologise.  We have two samples, one of which has already been prepared for analysis. Analysis begins next week.  We have taken the view that the samples from the boulder should not be examined or described by anybody who has been involved in the "bluestone debate."  That includes me and it includes Ixer and Bevins.  Impartiality is all-important in this case, and we will stand by our decision that the work should be done by somebody competent who is capable of bringing complete objectivity to the matter.

If Rob can just manage to relax for a while, and wait until the results of our commissioned analyses are published, he will have every opportunity to say whatever he likes about them at that stage, just like everybody else.






Tuesday, 8 February 2022

The Glan yr Afon erratics -- a change of hypothesis


 

As I have often said on this blog, although not in these precise words, if you get too fond of your hypotheses they are likely to turn on you and bite you in the bum.  You get my drift.....

Anyway, I have done two posts in the past on the rather splendid collection of erratics scattered about on common land not far from Crosswell and on the lane leading ultimately to Glan yr Afon Uchaf.  This is directly NNW of Carn Goedog, on the north flank of Mynydd Preseli.  The distance to the tor is about 2 km across open treeless moorland which is reasonably dry, in the Pembrokeshire sense of the word.

https://brian-mountainman.blogspot.com/2020/08/spotted-dolerite-erratics-at-glan-yr.html

https://brian-mountainman.blogspot.com/2017/10/the-spotted-dolerite-enigma.html


As we can see from this satellite image, Glan yr Afon is currently something of a building site -- the property is being developed, and it's taking a very long time.  I have put a red ring around the main concentration of boulders, but there are many others lying around too, on a landscape that is quite hummocky. 

In my discussions about this site I eventually suggested that this was an area of hummocky moraine formed at a short-lived ice edge during the LGM of last glacial episode, around 24,000 years ago. That's because the boulders in these stone concentrations were nearly all heavily weathered and rounded off or abraded -- but some appeared to be broken.  OK -- broken in glacial transport, I thought.  The boulders -- of many different sizes, were clearly not QUARRIED -- there were no signs of the sharp edges that quarrying would have produced. But the big problem was that the boulders were nearly all made of spotted dolerite, in an area where the nearest spotted dolerite is at Carn Goedog.  There are no recorded outcrops this far north of the upland ridge and its tors.  So had the boulders been carried northwards by ice from a Preseli Ice Cap?  I wasn't very convinced by the evidence, but thought it possible.

So on balance my working hypothesis was that this was indeed a morainic accumulation, with work still to be done in explaining how all those spotted dolerite boulders had accumulated in one spot.

Fast forward to these posts:

https://brian-mountainman.blogspot.com/2014/08/spotted-dolerite-ooh-theres-posh.html

https://brian-mountainman.blogspot.com/2014/09/did-carn-goedog-provide-stone-for-cana.html

https://brian-mountainman.blogspot.com/2020/08/cana-independent-chapel-facade-with.html


Aha!  Cana Chapel at Felindre Farchog -- about 4 km away from Glan yr Afon and c 6 km away from Carn Goedog.  There are written records of stones from Carn Meini being fetched to provide the facing materials for the chapel around 1857.  I thought once upon a time that the stones might have been collected from the top end of the tor and then carried along the old drovers road towards Carn Alw.  But on the quiet I wasn't all that happy about that, since I am not at all convinced that any large lumps of rock have been taken from the top end of the tor.  (This is of course where Prof MPP and his jolly quarrymen insist that there was a Neolithic bluestone quarry -- which I don't accept for a moment --but let that pass......)

So where is this taking us?  Well, in a flash of inspiration last night while I was in the bath, I saw Carn Goedog linked to the Glan yr Afon jumble of spotted dolerite "erratics" linked to Cana Chapel.  Suddenly it all makes sense.  The stone collection team made up of members of the Cana congregation collected spotted dolerite boulders from the easiest places possible, along the bottom edge of the tor near the group of medieval houses investigated by MPP and others.  They transported them across the dryish moorland, probably in the summer months, to Glan yr Afon, which is where a proper roadway started. They made a substantial stone depot there, where they undertook some stone dressing work, taking away the dressed blocks of stone and leaving behind great piles of broken debris -- these are still visible as grassy mounds on the common.  This was far more economical than carrying the boulders all the way to Felindre Farchog.  They actually had too much stone in the end -- and left a lot of it behind -- and we can see this residue today.  Actually, only the front facade of the chapel is made of dressed spotted dolerite -- the other three walls are made of cheap rubble.  Maybe the work of shaping and dressing the stones at the Glan yr Afon depot was too hard?  After all, spotted dolerite is incredibly difficult to work with -- I know, having stone faced my own house with spotted dolerite and rhyolite!  So maybe the intention of facing the whole of the chapel was simply abandoned on cost and labour grounds.  

Now I am much happier.  This makes much more sense.  Maybe a little strangely, I'm a glacial geomorphologist looking at a pile of stones and saying the pile is probably man-made and not natural.  Mind you, I have done that before, with respect to the Bronze Age quarries at Foel Drygarn.  We have to go where the evidence takes us.

So that is my new working hypothesis.  Hope you like it.......... 


The slide car (car llusg) was widely used in Wales for moving heavy loads across difficult terrain where wheels might have broken.  was something like this used as late as 1857 for moving bluestone boulders across the moor from Carn Goedog to Glan yr Afon?  At that point loads -- or shaped stones -- could have continued their journeys to Felindre Farchog on a wheeled vehicle such as a gambo or cart.

Monday, 7 February 2022

All alone? I don't think so.....


In a rather silly and cheap comment on a discussion forum which many will know, geologist Rob Ixer accused me the other day of being a lone voice in the wilderness, saying things that nobody else was at all interested in listening to.   I happen to think that rather a lot of people agree with me that there are no bluestone quarries, that there never was a "lost circle" at Waun Mawn which was later shipped off to Stonehenge, and that the idea of the human bluestone transport expeditions is really rather preposterous.  I listen to what people say, and I get many messages which Ixer and his colleagues would not find very flattering.  Even, dare I say it, from geologists.  Anyway, it's nice to report that the press release about the Mumbles "giant erratic" which went out about 10 days ago has been read by over 500 people already, and another milestone has been reached with the readings of my Waun Mawn article reaching 4,200 reads.  

I think we may safely assume that quite a lot of people are rather interested in what I have to say;  they may not agree with my conclusions on everything, but I have no problem with that.  The whole point is that people should be aware that the ideas so heavily promoted by MPP and his colleagues are actually disputed by more people that they might like to believe.  Sadly, they have never admitted in print that their ideas are disputed by anybody;  and when you rush along the tracks in a permanent state of denial about the dangers ahead, your destiny is always to hit an immovable object with considerable force.  Sad, but inevitable.  

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/345177590_Waun_Mawn_and_the_search_for_Proto-_Stonehenge

https://brian-mountainman.blogspot.com/2022/01/stonehenge-giant-glacial-erratic-hailed.html


Friday, 4 February 2022

Spreading fantasies on the Golden Road



I have been listening to "Ramblings" on BBC Sounds -- Clare Balding rambling along the Golden Road, on the west-east Preseli ridge, in the company of Nick Gammage, his wife and a jolly hound.  He sounds like a nice enough fellow, but who did the research on this programme?  Much of the conversation, as they rambled along, was out with the fairies.  For a start, the basic premise, namely that the Golden Road was followed by the drovers in days of yore, was completely faulty.  The drovers NEVER ambled along high ridgeways with their animals -- that was far too risky, and it was too difficult to control the animals.  They crossed Mynydd Preseli in one place in particular, in the col to the east of Cerrigmarchogion and down past Carn Goedog, towards Carn Alw, and thence off towards Eglwyswrw.  That is well documented, and there is evidence on the ground in support of what the experts have deduced.  A small amount of research would have established all of that and would have ensured the the programme was telling a story that was more or less correct.

Then we came -- of course -- to the wonderful saga of the bluestones, complete with standing stones, quarries, and the wonderful lost circle as promoted with great enthusiasm by our old friend MPP.   And there it was again -- the latest embellishment of the myth, with Nick Gammage telling the nation that the bluestones at Stonehenge all have "footprints" that match exactly with all of the sockets left at Waun Mawn, thus proving that all of the stones were there to start with before being shipped off in those great haulage expeditions to Salisbury Plain.  As I have explained before, not even MPP has claimed that, but here it is again, being stated on the radio as if it is established fact.

Shallow radio, aimed straight at the most gullible.  Sad, isn't it?

  

Tuesday, 1 February 2022

The unspotted dolerites at Stonehenge




Stone 44 at Stonehenge (photo: Simon Banton). Unspotted dolerite -- or maybe spotted dolerite, depending on which text you are looking at.  From Carn Ddafad-las?  Weight c 1 tonne. A highly abraded and weathered boulder.


Stone 45 at Stonehenge (photo: Simon Banton).  Unspotted dolerite, source Carn Ddafad-las (maybe) or Cerrigmarchogion (maybe) and weight c 1 tonne. A highly abraded and weathered boulder, somewhat elongated.


The base of standing stone 62, somewhat damaged by rock collectors in recent centuries (photo: Simon Banton).  Unspotted dolerite, and  characteristics different from stones 44 and 45, but still classified as "group 2 dolerite".  This one is a very fine standing stone, clearly shaped and placed in the bluestone circle.  Ixer and Bevins speculate that it might have come from Carn Meini or Carn Gyfrwy, or maybe from Cerrigmarchogion or Talfynydd........   Parker Pearson speculates that this stone has a "footprint" similar to one of the supposed sockets at Waun Mawn, and argued that the stone was first used at Waun Mawn and then moved to Stonehenge -- but I have looked at the pit in the ground surface and I don't think there is any matching at all......... 

Simon's very useful web site is here:

http://www.stonesofstonehenge.org.uk/p/about-this-site.html

We can argue, maybe, about the origins and the transport and the shaping of Stone 62, but there can surely be no argument at all about stones 44 and 45.  There is no way that these could be quarried bluestone monoliths, and they are typical glacial erratics with heavily abraded surfaces and rounded off edges.



Anthony Johnson's excellent plan showing where the numbered stones are located.

In the literature there are some interesting comments on the Boles Barrow bluestone, which is a spotted dolerite but which seems to have more in common, geochemically, with the unspotted dolerites numbered SH44 and SH45. Thorpe and Williams-Thorpe thought that the Boles Barrow bluestone might have come from near Carn Ddafad-las, right on the edge of the spotted dolerite terrain.  This may support the contention that there is great variation within dolerite intrusions related to depth or cooling rate, suggested by a number of different researchers.   It may even be that both spotted dolerites and unspotted dolerites can occur within the same intrusion, making accurate provenancing of Stonehenge samples quite difficult.

This is quite helpful too -- a map kindly posted on Twitter by Mike Pitts last year, confirming just three unspotted dolerites and lots of empty spaces:


There are just 3 known unspotted dolerite monoliths at Stonehenge -- one standing and two recumbent.  However, there are also some bits of debris in the debitage.  Information from studies of fragments has fed into this analysis.
"Revisiting the provenance of the Stonehenge bluestones: Refining the provenance of the Group 2 non-spotted dolerites using rare earth element geochemistry." 2021.  Journal of Archaeological Science: Reports 38:103083  by Richard Bevins, Nick Pearce and Robert Ixer
Extract from the Abstract:

Group 2 non-spotted dolerites are now divided, on the basis of their REE (rare earth elements) contents, into four Preseli and two Stonehenge sub-groups, (Groups 2i-2iv and Groups 2v-2vi, respectively) while Stonehenge orthostat sample SH44 plots apart from all other Stonehenge and Preseli samples in all discriminant diagrams used. The new data show that Preseli Group 2i dolerites have very distinct concave down “humped” patterns and bear no resemblance to any analysed Stonehenge dolerites. The source of Stonehenge Group 2v dolerites remains equivocal; they plot close to Preseli Group 2ii dolerites from Carn Ddafad-las and Garn Ddu Fach and have in common the presence of notable positive Eu anomalies, but they show minor differences, especially in relation to their Gdn/Ybn ratios. However, Stonehenge orthostat sample SH45 shows a near identical REE composition to Preseli Group 2iii dolerites from Cerrigmarchogion. In terms of the interpretation of REE contents and chondrite-normalized patterns we found no differences whether using the ‘standard’ techniques used by geochemists, based on chondrite-normalized elemental ratios and values, or the quantitative approach using shape factors derived from polynomial curve fitting.

More giant erratics.....


 

Two more rather splendid giant erratics -- sent in by Phil Morgan, to whom many thanks. Great photos! These two are in the Aberdare Valley, and look as if they are made of Pennant Sandstone.  The sedimentary structures are clearly seen.  In this area the Welsh ice was flowing broadly southwards, carrying "Coalfield" and other erratics in fairly well defined valley glaciers.  However, at some stages in the Quaternary the whole landscape was incorporated into the Welsh Ice Cap and was deeply inundated beneath southwards-flowing ice.

Dead ice terrain



Don't you just love dead ice terrain?  it's very dangerous, which is maybe why I have always thought it rather fascinating.  I have done many posts over the years, including this one:

https://brian-mountainman.blogspot.com/2019/10/dead-ice-terrain.html?m=0

The above photo was taken near the edge of Whisky Glacier in Antarctica, and shows what happens when detached or dead ice is melting out under a surface layer of till.  Everything moves, and you walk across this sort of terrain at your peril.........

The more I think about the nature of the deposits in bays like West Dale Bay in Pembs or Rotherslade in the Gower or Morfa Bychan on the Ceredigion coast, the more I am convinced that around 24,000 years ago, when the ice of the LGM Irish Sea Glacier was melting away, there was wholesale reorganisation - redeposition of glacially deposited materials which actually flowed or slid on a saturated surface of either ice or permafrost.  i pat=rt compant with some other geomorphologists who think that these redeposited materials are "old" glacial deposits dating from earlier glacial episodes.  I think that this explanation is more complex than it needs to be -- Occam's Razor and all that......

Unless there is some very powerful evidence that the original glacial deposits are old, I prefer to think of them as new, redeposited and rearranged probably within a few centuries of the initiation of deglaciation.

Stratified deposits at West Dale Bay.  How exactly were they laid down?


Some of the deposits at Rotherslade (photo: Hiemstra et al, 2009).  Similar deposits are seen all around the West Wales coasts, and are variously interpreted as meltout till / flowtill / rubble drift.


Stratified slope deposits at Morfa Bychan, Ceredigion.  Periglacial or glacial in origin?


I suppose some of the differences between these deposits are related to turbulent and chaotic flows of large masses of debris in some cases, where the meltout layer is quite thick -- and at the other extreme a very thin flowing or mobile layer with a frozen "sliding surface" just a few cm beneath the ground surface.  More thought needed on all this....