The Newall Boulder with the thee samples placed in their correct positions.
(Acknowledgement: BGS photograph)
"When you are in a deep hole and can't get out, for God's sake stop digging!" One would have thought that piece of sound advice would be heeded by geologists Ixer, Bevins and Pearce -- but no -- they are determined to keep on shovelling away, assisted this time by museum director David Dawson and blogger Tim Daw. Actually Tim is not listed as a co-author of the latest piece, but he provides enthusiastic back-up support in the blogosphere..........
This is the latest article:
https://the-past.com/feature/victorian-gifts-new-insights-into-the-stonehenge-bluestones/
Victorian gifts: new insights into the Stonehenge bluestones
Rob Ixer, Richard Bevins, Nick Pearce, and David Dawson explain more.
CURRENT ARCHAEOLOGY, AUGUST 29, 2022, 5 pp
Actually, the picture of geologists digging a hole is not particularly apt in this instance, because what we have is yet another study of ancient slides and samples found in museums, as a substitute for fieldwork. As a result, the arguments about the geology of the bluestones get even more tangled than they were before, with the geologists making yet more claims that are unsupported by their own evidence.
It's a strange article, published in a popular glossy magazine without peer review. So it doesn't make any attempt to be a "scientific article" -- it is simply intended to promote an opinion, or a set of opinions. The hypothesis of bluestone quarries is mentioned in the very first sentence, presented as a fact -- so we all know where the article is heading. The first part of the article is about the discovery (in the Wiltshire Museum) of slides made from William Cunnington's 1876-1881 Stonehenge collections. There is a strange mention of sarsens being "quarried locally" -- the authors mean "collected locally", but they just love the idea of quarrying. Let that pass. Then they get onto rock names and have a go at me: "The plethora of rock names in existence has been abused by some to suggest that the range of bluestone rock types is far wider than it really is, a misdirection made in order to promote the belief that they are random erratics rather than having been quarried and transported by humans." This is a bit rich, coming from researchers who have constantly added new groups to the list of Stonehenge rock types (and changed their own terminology) over the past decade, so that we now have various tuffs or rhyolites, various unspotted dolerites and various spotted dolerites, andesites, dacites and sandstones, with assorted fragments that seem to be unique, from provenances unknown. With every article they write they demonstrate greater bluestone variability, while claiming the opposite. Some of the sandstones are called bluestones, and one (made of greenstone) is referred to as a "non-bluestone". When, I wonder , does a non-bluestone become a "true bluestone"? All very strange.......... and very unscientific.
And don't get me going on stump 32c, which has been referred to in paper after paper as a Rhosyfelin foliated rhyolite (and sometimes as an altered volcanic ash) and is now referred to as the source of "much of the andesite group A debitage". Confused? So you should be. And I make no apologies far gently asking the geologists to sort out their own nomenclature shambles before telling the rest of us what to think about anything.
Back to the latest article. One section deals with the Altar Stone. The authors suggest that thin section "Wilts 277" (which has been enthusiastically discussed on this blog and in many other contexts) came directly from a lump knocked off the bottom of the Altar Stone in 1844 by "Mr Brown of Amesbury". The key sample of the Altar Stone is now held in the Salisbury Museum, with (museum label 2010K 240. That's interesting, but of course the new find does nothing to bring the discovery of the real source of the Altar Stone any closer. It is still a mystery.
The lump of dark coloured sandstone found in Salisbury Museum and now claimed to be the source of thin section 277.
Now to the part of the article in which the authors really are out dancing with the fairies. It's entitled "Cunnington and Kellaway" and it deals with the "Newall boulder" labelled RSN18 ENQ 2305 which is held in Salisbury Museum and which I examined in June in the company of Tony Hinchliffe. Ixer et al refer to the boulder as "a broken joint block" -- a completely weird term, since virtually any pebble, cobble, boulder or lump of natural rock found anywhere in the world could be given the same label, on the basis that rocks tend to fracture or break along joints.
Anyway, Ixer and his colleagues home in on the supposed striations on the stone and on Kellaway's suggestion that it is a glacial erratic that might have come from North Wales. They state baldly: "We have recently reunited and examined the joint block and all its offcuts and associated thin sections, and the rhyolitic tuff shows all the key characteristics needed to assign it to Rhyolite Group C from Craig Rhos-y-Felin." They provide no evidence to support that assertion. However, they do mention the confusion over the OU analysis of a sample that may, or may not, have come from the boulder. I have discussed this elsewhere:
Then they say:
".......very recent analysis by pXRF on all pieces of the joint block plus two other visually similar rhyolitic tuffs from the same Newell collection (RSN9 ENQ 2295 and RSN10 ENQ 2296) clearly show that these fragments are compositionally Rhyolite Group C, confirming the petrographic identifications."
However many samples have been taken and analysed, and even if they all belong to "Rhyolite Group C", this does NOT demonstrate that the boulder was a quarried lump of rock that came from Rhosyfelin. There are substantial differences, in hand samples, between the Newall Boulder and the foliated rhyolites from Rhosyfelin, as we can see below:
Close-up of the fresh face of the Newall Boulder, referred to by by Newall and Kellaway as an “ignimbritic rhyolite” and by Harrison as a "dark blue / blackish flinty welded tuff" with intersecting fractures.
Close-up of a sample from Rhosyfelin, a light blue-grey foliated rhyolite which breaks into
thin slabs or plates.
Harrison's description (1971):
RSN 18 ignimbritic tuff-lava
“
This large, dark blue-grey, hard, flinty (? partly worked artifact) shows a white weathered crust up to 5 mm thick. The thin section shows a complex structure of very finely banded welded tuff (compressed foliated shards cemented by fine silica) with composite quartz grains and strings of dusty leucoxene, separated by patches of much finer grained, finely fluxioned glassy lava with patches of granular quartz, This specimen appears to represent a complex of originally viscous glassy lava and welded vitric tuff, all presumably of rhyolitic composition.”
That does not sound to me like a description that would fit Rhosyfelin.
This is the evidence used by the authors of the article to demonstrate that the Newall Boulder samples match those from Rhosyfelin. It's a geochemical plot of ppm of selected minerals on A and B axes, for a large number of "Craig Rhosyfelin" analyses (well over a hundred) compared with analyses for three Newall samples numbered RSN18, RSN9 and RSN10. We have no idea whether the Rhosyfelin X-ray analyses were all conducted on rock faces at Rhosyfelin, or whether some (or even most) of the analyses were conducted on samples found at Stonehenge but deemed to have come from Rhosyfelin. The "field" covered by the Rhosyfelin samples is a very big one, and plots from many other Stonehenge rhyolites and dolerites would fall within it if they had been added. So the diagram itself, impressive as it might appear, tells us nothing whatsoever about the source of the Newall boulder.
Plots of "geochemical signatures" of groups of samples are useless without much more detailed information about sampling methods and locations.
All that having been said, I am actually not that bothered where the Newall boulder has come from. If it really is a North Pembrokeshire rhyolite, that's fine by me. I have no reason whatsoever to wish that it might have come from North Wales!
I have a much more serious issue with the cavalier and slapdash manner in which this boulder has been examined by Ixer and his colleagues. They completely ignore my detailed analysis of it which was published on Researchgate in June of this year (updated on 15 July):
They fail to mention that I identified and described the slickensiding features on one of the boulder faces, and that I distinguished between these and the faint striations on other parts of the surface. They fail to mention the weathering characteristics of the boulder, or its glacial facets, or its edge abrasion features, or the pressure fractures that clearly have nothing whatsoever to do with human interference. They fail to mention the tufa deposits or other evidence that this boulder has had a long and complex history, and that it has clearly NOT been quarried at Rhosyfelin and carted off to Stonehenge for no apparent reason by our heroic ancestors. As Kellaway said when he examined the boulder, why would anybody gather up a useless small stone of this size, carry it all the way to Stonehenge, knock a few bits off it, and then throw it away? It just does not make any sense.
Ixer et al are clearly intent on proving that the Newall boulder is a quarried lump of foliated rhyolite from Rhosyfelin which has been carried to Stonehenge, or else that it is a lump knocked off a larger rhyolite orthostat. The evidence on the surface of the boulder itself is all that is needed to disprove that hypothesis, and I begin to wonder whether they have really looked at it at all.
No marks out of ten. They must do better, by paying more attention to the literature and listening to the advice given to them by others.
===========================
PS. Prof Peter Kokelaar very kindly looked at my photos of the Newall Boulder and said this:
"Problem is that lavas commonly have various vesiculation bands that collapse and look vitroclastic and welded. I’d buy into the petrographer’s interpretation of welded igneous rock. One pic appears to contain a xenolith so that the streaky fabric perhaps on balance is welded pyroclastic, but then lavas contain xenoliths too.'
".......... no question in my mind with the data available to me that the Newall stone can have originated in North Pembs. I’ve seen so much Ramsey erratic rock on Gower that Ramsey is a prime candidate, but there are numerous other Ordovician rhyolite sheet possibilities. Given that we know for certain Pembs supplied volcanic (and dolerite, and Skomer, and St Davids Head) erratics at least as far as Gower, it becomes an exceptional plea to have it come from Snowdonia."
Regarding the slickensiding: "In my book the surface shows quartz-mineral ribbon/fibre growth slickensiding. Top right the transverse bands are growth increments, where movement is missing-part down to left. The ribbons have stepped ends down-left where missing counterpart broke away."
Another photo "shows layers of fibres with some changes of growth direction. Beneath capping vein (white patch), part the fibres on the left are NW-SE, then middle W-E, then NW-SE again. Evidently part of a fault zone..."
Dr John, there seems to be a contradiction in your article.
ReplyDeleteYou refer to Ixer et al's article in Current Archaeology 391 as follows -
"It's a strange article, published in a popular glossy magazine without peer review." the implication being that is it probably less that trustworthy for this.
But then, referring to your own detailed description of the Newall boulder, you state -
"They completely ignore my detailed analysis of it which was published on Researchgate in June of this year (updated on 15 July)"
When did Research Gate become a publishing house with a peer review process? Your article posted on that website is also "without peer review", but you dont make that clear.
In the spirit of openness, I would ask that you post this response to clarify the situation on your blog.
Perfectly fair point, and I'll publish it and reply, although I do not normally permit unsigned comments. You are right -- Researchgate articles are not peer reviewed, but they are open access and comments and criticisms are welcomed on and off the record -- and indeed I do get a lot of feedback and then make adjustments as necessary. Because they are treated as "working papers" they sometimes go through many versions -- as with my Waun Mawn article which has now been read over 5,000 times. So somebody takes them seriously! My comment about the lack of peer review in this latest CA article was rather tongue in cheek, because for years Rob Ixer has been protesting that he and his colleagues only take seriously -- and indeed only cite -- articles that appear in peer-reviewed academic journals. In reality, of course, they cite all sorts of non peer-reviewed materials (book chapters, dissertations, newsletters, field reports etc) whenever it suits them to do so. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
ReplyDelete.... and while I'm about it, why is it that these people who claim to have due respect for relevant peer-reviewed articles have not once acknowledged the existence of, or cited, the two peer reviewed articles about Rhosyfelin published by Dyfed Elis-Gruffydd, John Downes and myself in 2015? Seven years, and not one mention in a string of relevant papers. People who cannot even accept that their ideas are disputed do themselves inestimable harm, and bring academic research itself into disrepute.
ReplyDeleteMessrs Ixer, Bevins & Pearce have a heavily biased agenda, namely to shout from the rooftops that their self - proclaimed but nevertheless highly dubious Rhosyfelin "prehistoric human quarry" is, like Rome, where all roads of geological analysis lead. Ixer & Bevins from the outset sought all the perceived "glory" they could acquire and so stated that they had provenanced some Stonehenge geological fragments by petrography to an area of just a few square metres. Mike Parker Pearson jumped on this Indiana - Jones - style -bandwagon with his excavations the following season which made very controversial unsubstantiated conclusions on his claimed Rhosyfelin "prehistoric quarry". It is interesting, nay highly significant, that Rhosyfelin has never been classified as an Ancient Monument, yet it HAS been classified as a RIGS geomorphological site!! Brian John & his geomorphological specialist colleagues John Downes & Dyfed Elis-Gruffydd produced their two properly peer-reviewed papers for appropriate journals in 2015. Eventually, the clear small voice of wisdom and science will be heard, and all the clamour, the sound and fury associated with the social media that dresses up Rhosyfelin as something it is NOT, will disappear into oblivion. But Brian's Blog, deposited in the National Library of Wales Aberystwyth, will assume its proper significance as regards the Stonehenge Bluestones and Glaciation.
ReplyDeleteBy putting "Rhosyfelin RIGS designation" into the Blog Search Engine you will find it is number 564. The Post is dated 25th September 2019. Other Posts will also appear.
ReplyDeleteThe RIGS designation means it is accepted as a site of geomorphological / geological significance, with a number of features mentioned on the citation. This means the National Park has a responsibility to protect the site.
ReplyDeleteDr John,
ReplyDeleteThank you posting my anonymous comment and for your response to it concerning Research Gate and citations.
If your posts on Research Gate are "working papers" - such as your well-read Waun Mawn post - when do you intend for these to progress to final versions and submission to an academic journal for peer review and publication in the scientific literature? I have noticed in some of your other blogs your frustration with this process. However, five thousand reads in the 18-plus months it has been a "working paper" must give you the confidence (and presumably enough feedback) to submit your ideas for the standard peer-review scrutiny - a scrutiny academics all must face to fulfil their research roles in Universities.
Working papers or any unpublished material are dangerous to cite in works sent for publication: they are volatile, almost by definition they change as the versions evolve - material cited from an early version could easily be changed in a later version, making the citation invalid or wrong. That is one reason academics will generally only cite peer reviewed published material - it will not change with time. This lack of volatility also includes PhD theses (examined and final versions deposited in libraries or online), printed books, popular articles etc. all of which are traceable, unlike the early versions of "working papers".
Many journals publish without Article Publications Charges (although more online journals now impose these APCs, but that is another story), and these "free" routes allow open access to the peer-reviewed versions (not typeset) of the manuscript deposited somewhere like Research Gate, so really there is no reason for you not to engage with this - your work does not have to be behind the "pay walls" you so dislike, and is there to be found and used. You studies would surely get more recognition if published.
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander?
Thanks for your post -- yes, I accept the points you make. Of course, I have published on peer-reviewed journals in recent years -- the two Rhosyfelin papers (written with Dyfed Elis-Gruffydd and John Downes) which are so studiously ignored by Parker Pearson and his colleagues, the Isles of Scilly paper and a note on Caldey Island. And "on the record" material in the Pembs Historical Atlas and Andy Burnham's "Old Stones" book. And "The Stonehenge Bluestones" is there for all to read and quote if so inclined........
ReplyDeleteI have several articles in the pipeline, and they will be submitted to journals when I have some analytical results to hand. I did submit an article on Carn Goedog to an archaeological journal but it was rejected out of hand on the pretext that it did not contain enough "original scientific results" -- but the real reason, of course, was that it was too inconvenient. I have also suggested articles for well-known glossy "popular archaeology" journals, and my letters have simply been ignored.
Anyway, truth will out. With renewed vigour, I will tidy up my manuscripts and submit them (!!) in the knowledge that they are short on the analytical work that I would have done if I had still been working from a university department with access to labs and research funds. Watch this space.....