This is a message from Phil -- I thought it might be of wider interest, and Phil agrees to it being published. Rob Ixer's assessment of the rock type (and we have to accept that Phil is reporting this correctly) is more than a little weird --is it possibly from the same source as the Altar Stone, or is it not?
What intrigues me is that there is uncertainty about the origins of Slide 277, as reported on p173 of my new book. So the planter and the piece of rock from which slide 277 was made may have great geological similarities, but if neither is related to the Altar Stone, we are not much further forward. Somebody (preferably an employee of EH) needs to bash a bit off the Altar Stone,record the sampling process and authenticate its provenance, and get it properly analysed. The Senni Beds connection might well be less firmly established than we might like to think. That would put us all out of our misery........
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Way back in August 2011, while searching for abandoned ‘bluestones’ in the Hereford area, I came across a large odd shaped stone in a lady’s garden, in a small village just outside Hereford. The lady allowed me to collect a sample of the stone which was shown to the geology department of the National Museum of Wales in Cardiff, where Dr Jana Horak suggested that it probably came from Garnons Hill about seven miles west of Hereford.
Further investigation involving the Hereford Cider Museum suggested that the stone may originally have been used as a cider-press, for at the left end (covered by the overhanging plant in the photo, [A4 sheet of paper for scale]) is a small drainage hole at the base of the hollowed out portion of the stone. Other suggestions included the possibility that it was a Roman sarcophagus.
A thin section was prepared and, together with the hand specimen, was forwarded to Dr Rob Ixer for a detailed petrographical examination to be performed. After conducting the examination and comparing the results with thin section #277, Dr. Ixer’s assessment was that “the Planter is not from the Altar Stone, but it is not impossible”.
However, comparing the ‘Planter’ report to the Altar Stone petrography report, (R.A. Ixer, P. Turner 2006) the planter sample had fourteen identical features with the Altar Stone thin section #277, but only four differences. This warranted an extensive examination of Garnons Hill over many months which, unfortunately, proved inconclusive.
My interest in the source of the Altar Stone still remains, although ageing legs now restrict quarry hunting to easy access viewing, nevertheless, during travels around south Wales I have visited several promising locations. Two that stand out are the Senni Quarry, south-west of Heol Senni, and Craig Cerrig-gleisiad (Glitter-stones Crag), just off the A470 west of Pen-y-Fan (enter ‘Craig Cerrig-gleisiad’ in the search box for location photos).
The other day I once again contacted the Cider Museum to see if they knew whether it was likely that the majority, or perhaps all, cider presses came from the same area, or even quarry? The answer was ‘unknown’, consequently the source of the ‘planter’, like the source of the Altar Stone, remains a mystery; therefore, if anyone out there has any suggestions as to the possible source of the Cider Press/Planter, then I would welcome them.
Phil Morgan
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Way back in August 2011, while searching for abandoned ‘bluestones’ in the Hereford area, I came across a large odd shaped stone in a lady’s garden, in a small village just outside Hereford. The lady allowed me to collect a sample of the stone which was shown to the geology department of the National Museum of Wales in Cardiff, where Dr Jana Horak suggested that it probably came from Garnons Hill about seven miles west of Hereford.
Further investigation involving the Hereford Cider Museum suggested that the stone may originally have been used as a cider-press, for at the left end (covered by the overhanging plant in the photo, [A4 sheet of paper for scale]) is a small drainage hole at the base of the hollowed out portion of the stone. Other suggestions included the possibility that it was a Roman sarcophagus.
A thin section was prepared and, together with the hand specimen, was forwarded to Dr Rob Ixer for a detailed petrographical examination to be performed. After conducting the examination and comparing the results with thin section #277, Dr. Ixer’s assessment was that “the Planter is not from the Altar Stone, but it is not impossible”.
However, comparing the ‘Planter’ report to the Altar Stone petrography report, (R.A. Ixer, P. Turner 2006) the planter sample had fourteen identical features with the Altar Stone thin section #277, but only four differences. This warranted an extensive examination of Garnons Hill over many months which, unfortunately, proved inconclusive.
My interest in the source of the Altar Stone still remains, although ageing legs now restrict quarry hunting to easy access viewing, nevertheless, during travels around south Wales I have visited several promising locations. Two that stand out are the Senni Quarry, south-west of Heol Senni, and Craig Cerrig-gleisiad (Glitter-stones Crag), just off the A470 west of Pen-y-Fan (enter ‘Craig Cerrig-gleisiad’ in the search box for location photos).
The other day I once again contacted the Cider Museum to see if they knew whether it was likely that the majority, or perhaps all, cider presses came from the same area, or even quarry? The answer was ‘unknown’, consequently the source of the ‘planter’, like the source of the Altar Stone, remains a mystery; therefore, if anyone out there has any suggestions as to the possible source of the Cider Press/Planter, then I would welcome them.
Phil Morgan
We perhaps would benefit from a comment or two from one or other of Rob Ixer's close friends, e.g. Myris of Alexandria if he is contactable and also receptive to this plea. Come back, Myris.
ReplyDeleteThe Altar Stone, since its provenance is known to be not Preseli, is an intriguing odd one out! Its true provenance, once established, would take us a long way down the road of whether it was brawny Neolithic proto - Celts, or Anglian glaciation, that should be deemed responsible for how the non - sarsen stones arrived somewhere generally in "Wessex" (not necessarily conveniently right next to the site of Stonehenge).
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ReplyDeleteBy mutual agreement Myris will not appear on this blog again, nor will any of his other aliases. There are plenty of other blogs on which he can make his views known, if he wants to.
ReplyDelete.....in which case, I'd welcome comments from Richard Bevins, Rob Ixer's colleague. Surely the Altar Stone is so substantial, and so exceptional at Stonehenge amidst all the other less weighty North Pembrokeshire - sourced orthostats, that analysis of a removed tiny slice would be justifiable on scientific and public - interest grounds. And if there is public interest, there is also potential tourism benefits to the U. K. economy.
ReplyDelete"The strange case of Stone 42c and the lead encased burial stone" found this on Tim Daw's sarsen.org blogsite, at 19th May 2012
ReplyDelete42c (and 40g) stumps are supposedly of Cosheton sandstone, he says there.
Quickest way to locate it from Tim's blogsite is by putting ALTAR STONE in his Search Engine.