http://brian-mountainman.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/strange-marks-at-carn-enoch.html
and I have published this photo before:
Well, today I found this photo on Twitter, with no mention of its location:
It's labelled as a site where the sharpening and smoothing of Neolithic stone axes has occurred. Sounds reasonable to me. Any observations?
The polisher ('polissoir' if you are trying desperately to impress) at fyfield (2nd pic) is one of a few polishing stones in the Avebury area.
ReplyDeleteThe grooves and polishing area are as smooth as marble.
The small grooves in the 1st photo seem much cruder, different in shape and width. They look to me to be the result of a natural process. Why are you certain they are man-made?
No, I am not certain! I am just rather attracted by the idea, because although bthere may be some influence from the fabric of the rock, those deeply picked out grooves are extremely rare. In fact, I don't recall seeing anything similar anywhere else in Pembs, on any of the rock surfaces I have looked at over the years....... Also, the grooves are on a rock face that was once the back edge of a semi-circular enclosure too small to be an animal enclosure and just the right size to be a Neolithic or Bronze Age shelter, on the lee side of the tor. The ruinous rocky wall is still visible.
ReplyDeleteactualy besides the polissoir there are 148 stones in the Avebury area with polishing marks on them.
ReplyDeleteThe top photo doesn't look like any of them to me.
PeteG
I wonder if Myris's Doctor friend (forget his name, Doctor.......who??) can cast any geological + archaeological light on your Carn Enoch grooves?
ReplyDeleteThat good Doctor was associated with the S.P.A.C.E.S. boys who trawled through Northern Pembrokeshire for several Seasons. They included Geoff Wainwright and Tim Darvill.
Some of the megaliths at Avebury have been used as axe sharpening stones i.e. within the circles. Hardly any of the multitude of visitors to Avebury from far and wide will be aware of them. I had them pointed out by Dr Nick Snashall, National Trust archaeologist, whose Blog relating also to Stonehenge has had several mentions here.
ReplyDeleteOk. The reason I asked is because in the link provided you say they are "clearly man-made", so was simply wondering how you could be so sure!
ReplyDeleteThey are certainly very interesting, but on the evidence of that photo I can't see any meaningful connection with the polisher. Have you got any better photos of the grooves in the 1st pic?
Always open to rational debate! I did once ask Dyfed Archaeo Trust about this little dilemma, but they never bothered to reply.....
ReplyDeleteI am often up on Garn Fawr and have puzzled over these marks on Carn Enoch and the enclosure they sit above. I am not unconvinced that they could be a rough variant of Ogham scratced out by a one time occupant during the course of a few wet winters.
ReplyDeleteQuite possibly -- a bit of innocent rock-bashing or doodling to pass away a rainy day? Neolithic graffiti perhaps?
ReplyDeleteThem Enoch grooves nothing to do with Enoch Powell in the 1960s? Personal Tutor, Geography Department, Dr Brian John set his Tutor Group essays on Enoch's Rivers of Blood speech and no, it wasn't Halloween, not as I recall.
ReplyDeleteThe Stonehenge Visitor Centre retails a neat little illustrated book on British rock carving which I bought last year. Gave it to my brother who lives near St David's, and don't recall the title or author.
Perhaps those marks in the rock are tooth marks left by that Monster Brian likes to say lived somewhere up on Preseli, if so we have the solution.
the marks on the stone could have been used by shepherds to sharpen knives on.
ReplyDeleteSome you the people here really needs to go farming! :)
Pete, 148?!
ReplyDeleteI'm aware of several in WKLB, some on the avenue, as well as some smoothed areas of some of the circle stones, but I am extremely surprised at that number.
If you look closely there are twenty five grooves, it's obviously an advent calendar.
ReplyDeleteSorry lads I think the smart money is on a natural origin.
ReplyDeleteThe grooves are along the fabric of the lithology look at the row of feint grooves above the deeper ones.
They have a passing, but only passing, resemblance to sigmoidal tension gashes.
But please remember identification from photographs is a mug's game.
Is it certain that the lithology is dolerite? Brian's dolerite is a highly ecumenical church.
Was Enoch a sanguine OT prophet?
Still PLOUGHING through Tolstoy's 600+ SH mystery pages. I had not realised there is so much media-evil Welsh nonsense -more journeys than X-factor.
M
Must go back and take another look at those grooves. Tolstoy's book? Don't think I'll bother.......
ReplyDeleteNo it is really one for media-evilists and is very repetitious. Lots of (non discerning?)scholarship but I am not really much clearer about the role of Stonehenge. It is def one to label wood for the trees. Only a third through it and am often totally lost in the thicket of footnotes. But working on my navel puns.
ReplyDeleteM
Stay groovey, and check out Madonna's official video and lyrics for her Mega - hit..... "Into the Groove (you've got to prove....) for a full New - Age - logic explanation for Carn Enoch.
ReplyDeleteRe previous comment at 23.10 on 5th November:
ReplyDeleteANCIENT BRITISH ROCK ART, a guide to indigenous stone carvings, by CHRIS MANSELL. Wooden Books. ISBN 1-904263-569 PDF also available.
Paperback available, under £10.
Look now I have got some of those sigmondfroidal tension gashes, what in heaven’s name this is all about!
ReplyDeleteWho is Enoch Tolstoy? why is he evil ? what has he written about Stonehenge in welsh? Is it about trees or navels? has he been on the X factor? and what the hell has it to do with Madonna?
I feel so stupid I can’t work it out. Please stop this nonsense or explain!
You are not alone, Peter. Nobody else can work it out either. Mystical Myris likes to speak in riddles........
ReplyDeleteThank God for that, I am not alone.
ReplyDeleteBut now it isn’t just MoA, what is the relevance of you being Enoch Powell’s (who bore a passing resemblance to my uncle Frank) personal Tutor In the 1960’s before he gave that bloody speech on Halloween at the Stonehenge visitor centre and then turning into a huge monster, made those grooves in the rock with his teeth and started following you around the hills.
Sounds like Dinsdale Piranha and that enormous hedgehog Spiny Norman.
Have I got this wrong too?
Heaven forbid that I should ever be accused of having anything to do with Enoch Powell. Thoroughly nasty piece of work. But I was indeed Tony's tutor in Durham University, long long ago........ as for monsters and dragons with sharp teeth, all I can say is that some of the contributors to this blog love a rattling good yarn. And if you have problems with all these esoteric folk music references, they go way over my head too. Give me a good Shostakovich symphony any day.
ReplyDeleteIt's not just the contributors who love a rattling good yarn....what about the Angelic Blogmeister?!
ReplyDeleteTo avoid falling foul to Wild Goose Tales spread by Geologists at Aberystwyth tomorrow (and in other places and times), it is best to remain loose as a goose**.....one man's Shostakovich is another man's Paul Simon, after all, pop - pickers, as we all know.
ReplyDelete** "Oh, baby, that's what I like!"
Peter gives the clue - the Afanc was ere.
ReplyDeleteNo -- that is a wild speculation. The afanc is a water creature that likes to live in deep pools in the river, or under bridges. Doubt very much that the Brynberian afanc would have gone all the way up to Carn Enoch just the sharpen his claws.......
ReplyDeleteI saw them the other day, they are definitely man made (not afanc) I like the idea of axe sharpening, but there are similar horizontal grooves from a central line all over the site on different boulders. The central line is a natural feature in the rock but the grooves, similar to Ogham, do not show the variation in angle and spacing as Ogham. They could be cut with an axe blow as a test to see how good strong and sharp the axe can get. However, that does not make any sense either as the lines show deliberate spacing and are about equal length. Possibly a Neolithic calendar to show the dates of the arrival and departure of UFO's on Carningli that lies opposite. Brian has it correct, it may be Neolithic graffiti, but I would like to know what it says!
ReplyDeleteIn the past few months/year I know I have seen an explanation for the Carn Enoch grooves made by someone with some academic knowledge and some confidence. I suggest anyone coming new to this Post who is still in search of clarity to do a Search via their Search Engine. George Nash the cave art man may have an opinion.
ReplyDelete