tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post8436810225913476257..comments2024-03-28T22:13:17.139+00:00Comments on Stonehenge and the Ice Age: Skeletons, Secrets, Stonehenge and SkulduggeryBRIAN JOHNhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-65681951403634035292013-03-17T14:04:52.086+00:002013-03-17T14:04:52.086+00:00ooops I missed out a question mark after "Jan...ooops I missed out a question mark after "Jane Evans " in the NERC map comment . I was only guessing that she was the creator for that one .geocurnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-86835229400912438312013-03-17T13:41:41.905+00:002013-03-17T13:41:41.905+00:00Thank you, Geo -- useful information. Myris also ...Thank you, Geo -- useful information. Myris also asked about the maps -- I'll put them up on a post.BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-86377600299119244892013-03-17T12:33:38.415+00:002013-03-17T12:33:38.415+00:00The Sarah Viner map was created by Jane Evans and ...The Sarah Viner map was created by Jane Evans and has 5 colours whilst the NERC (also Jane Evans ) map on the prog has 8 .<br />The 5 colour map shows Scotland in much broader brush strokes with the mainland highlands wit the one exception of the Cairngorms /Grampians SE of the Great Glen giving values of >0.7100-0.713 .Whereas the 8 colour map shows the area N and W of the Great Glen giving values closer to that found in middle England . There is a red on the guide that is for values >0.720 but nothing of that value is found on the map or at Durrington .geocurnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-61112441048295754002013-03-17T08:04:14.034+00:002013-03-17T08:04:14.034+00:00Whoops
I think that Jane said some data were the s...Whoops<br />I think that Jane said some data were the same as the very old rocks in Scotland.<br />I am not sure she mentioned the Orkney Islands. I did.<br />Compare the two maps. Sr and geology.<br />Mmyris of Alexandrianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-45597295865659877712013-03-17T07:56:18.761+00:002013-03-17T07:56:18.761+00:00You can sometimes manipulate a map simply by chang...You can sometimes manipulate a map simply by changing the range covered by each colour in the key -- so the map will look quite different depending on the number of colours you choose to use.BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-511458351519844922013-03-17T07:54:50.920+00:002013-03-17T07:54:50.920+00:00Yes, I'm intrigued by the strontium isotope ma...Yes, I'm intrigued by the strontium isotope map used in the programme. it's different from the one used by Sarah Viner in her podcast. That one showed that there were several small areas (in Wales and Cornwall, as I recall) which were coloured red, and which could have been the areas of origin for the cattle teeth with the highest strontium traces in them. Has that map now been abandoned in favour of a different one that allows a more "convenient" interpretation to be made by MPP and his colleagues?<br /><br /> Does anybody out there know the history of the strontium isotope map of the UK?BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-42219153905505237032013-03-17T07:46:17.845+00:002013-03-17T07:46:17.845+00:00Sadly Myris cannot help re MPP
The Sr map is a mo...Sadly Myris cannot help re MPP<br /> The Sr map is a modified geological map of Britain and hence is broad brush. It is 25 miles to the inch. I think. Through the aether Jane told me some of their Sr data match Sr data from the Orkney Islands but until sampling is 100 per cent ....<br />Also the data are only for Britain not for the near continent.<br />C14 dating at Cryf is on going.<br />A J at last in power bring back the Tridentine Mass for everyday use then think about the masses.<br />M.<br />myris of alexandianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-57839273597194761362013-03-16T23:25:36.081+00:002013-03-16T23:25:36.081+00:00Tony,
MPP can pleasantly wiggle out of any tight ...Tony,<br /><br />MPP can pleasantly wiggle out of any tight corner and still stick to his story.<br /><br />KostasConstantinos Ragazasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-39413042061275517442013-03-16T17:25:39.479+00:002013-03-16T17:25:39.479+00:00Tony , Yes , Orkney was circled on the GE type map... Tony , Yes , Orkney was circled on the GE type map but I was more concerned with the strontium signatures map used by Jane Evans and then the cut to Orkney . MPP did say "may have come from Orkney too .Geocurnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-405359813945308332013-03-16T15:01:32.107+00:002013-03-16T15:01:32.107+00:00Yet, Geo, he chose to use map of the [modern] Brit...Yet, Geo, he chose to use map of the [modern] British Isles which clearly identified Orkney, using a large circle......this drew our eyes to Orkney, even if it was not even mentioned!<br /><br />I wonder if Myris has any knowledge of what was said at the Leicester MPP talk.I believe he has contacts at the University there.TonyHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-37405781056217572422013-03-16T10:23:28.666+00:002013-03-16T10:23:28.666+00:00Thanks Geo -- yes, quite right. That's progre...Thanks Geo -- yes, quite right. That's progress. I wonder what else he said in his talk? Did anybody hear it?BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-79049876429700478882013-03-16T10:04:57.442+00:002013-03-16T10:04:57.442+00:00" I would have chosen to go on the record to ..." I would have chosen to go on the record to put things straight. As far as I know, MPP has not done that."<br /><br />He has ,as mentioned yesterday .<br /><br />"Mpp in a talk in leicester last night accepted that the impression given on the prog about cattle from Orkney was wrong ."geocurnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-8446640732605798632013-03-16T08:01:36.963+00:002013-03-16T08:01:36.963+00:00As it happens, I do have experience of being invol...As it happens, I do have experience of being involved in TV docs -- including The One Show! That was pretty awful dumming down too! But I think that if my views had been distorted or misrepresented on the programme. I would have chosen to go on the record to put things straight. As far as I know, MPP has not done that.BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-42617618281940075042013-03-16T05:42:42.350+00:002013-03-16T05:42:42.350+00:00"Even if the Editor did nasty things in the c..."Even if the Editor did nasty things in the cutting room, MPP (as the technical and specialist advisor on the programme) should not have allowed that highly miseading sequence to be broadcast." <br />You haven't had experience of this I take it - if MPP owned CH4 and the production company he wouldn't have any say on what went out. One didn't have to know very much for this prog to come over as pretty awful, but it wasn't made for the informed - it's teletainment. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-7725222613345380132013-03-14T13:36:27.437+00:002013-03-14T13:36:27.437+00:00thothistheibis you write,
“There never has been a...thothistheibis you write,<br /><i><br />“There never has been a good explanation for these [henges, ditches, high banks, avenues, settlements, etc.]”</i><br /><br />I agree with you and empathize with your bewilderment. But your explanation <i>“this was to keep out the wild boar”</i> is more grasping for straw! Seen many wild boar? They can climb over any embankment made of mud!<br /><br />We need to look elsewhere for sensible explanations for all of these prehistoric enigmas. I suggest we look to Nature and not Man.<br /><br />KostasConstantinos Ragazasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-81584203445120328802013-03-14T13:26:03.446+00:002013-03-14T13:26:03.446+00:00Tony , houses were found inside the western centr...Tony , houses were found inside the western central area of the henge and also under the henge bank near the southern entrance . Houses also found outside the henge but not believed to predate the bank and ditch .geocurnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-4422715628642045842013-03-14T10:40:11.030+00:002013-03-14T10:40:11.030+00:00"The settlement that lasted 45 years only&quo...<i>"The settlement that lasted 45 years only" could, just possibly, be compared to the post - 1945 use of temporery prefab constuctions to replace housing destroyed during WWII. </i><br /><br />Could be. Mind you, many of the pre-fabs are still in use: The problem with the wrinkly tin pre-fabs was energy efficiency and the cost of maintenance. But, like almost any form of construction, it can be made to last exceptionally long periods if it is maintained.<br />Jon Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11264966739582178631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-78396050031148917992013-03-14T00:44:08.953+00:002013-03-14T00:44:08.953+00:00Here's a thought, why did they have henges? Wh...Here's a thought, why did they have henges? Why did the Cursus and the Avenue have high banks? Why was it necessary to dig such a large ditch and create such high bank(s) at places such as Avebury, Durrington Walls and Stonehenge? There were only very narrow openings into the henges and the Cursus, easily defended, but from who or what? I suggest that this was to keep out the wild boar.None of these things were deep enough or high enough to keep out people, but wild boar might have a hard time of it with deep ditches and high banks.<br />There never has been a good explanation for these. Anything within a henge has always been filed under 'ritual' area, but Durrington Walls was a settlement and the Avenue a road.<br />Just a thought.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-68486259667352653112013-03-13T23:19:22.221+00:002013-03-13T23:19:22.221+00:00I am not in a position to recognise which monument...I am not in a position to recognise which monument a macehead came from but I can recognise a grotesque anachronism in a commentary such as this: the idea of a 'British nation', extending from the English channel to Orkney, in 3000+ BC. We had references to the 'British Isles', but a map which excluded Ireland. No explanation was given of whether the possibility of animals having come from Ireland or from across the English Channel did not need to be considered, had been considered but found not to apply, or had been ignored because of an insular 'British' mindset. Actually I found the usage of the terms Britain and Europe as mutually exclusive rather revealing. <br /><br />It would be rather nice to think that Orkney cattle were in demand in Wiltshire because of their supreme quality; but I wonder if it wouldn't be more realistic to think of the transport of preserved meat rather than droving, or even shipping, cattle 1000 km or whatever.<br /><br />One further comment: it seems very Anglocentric to propose that people from all over the British Isles would have looked to Stonehenge as their 'mother church'. After all it is architecturally pretty crude and in a dull landscape compared to Orkney's Neolithic monuments and the greatest of those in Ireland.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-55383780111836200672013-03-13T12:12:37.247+00:002013-03-13T12:12:37.247+00:00Just possibly "the settlement that lasted onl...Just possibly "the settlement that lasted only 45 years" could be compared with the post - 1945 prefab concrete house building that rapidly replaced the housing bomb - damged during WWII. But I agree that such a sizeable village as MPP is suggesting needs excavation of a much larger area before his claim can be substantiated.TonyHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-68452380534175771982013-03-13T12:06:34.732+00:002013-03-13T12:06:34.732+00:00"The settlement that lasted 45 years only&quo..."The settlement that lasted 45 years only" could, just possibly, be compared to the post - 1945 use of temporery prefab constuctions to replace housing destroyed during WWII. But I agree that a good imagination may be required to believe this until more of the Durrington settlement area is excavated over the next 20 - 100 years.TonyHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-1847268535039291532013-03-13T11:05:36.057+00:002013-03-13T11:05:36.057+00:00Does anyone know whether it is now though that the...Does anyone know whether it is now though that the henge bank and ditch POST-DATE the so - called Durrington village, within which were found all the feasting elements? i thought I'd heard that stated by the Stonehenge Riverside Project folk.TonyHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-40210723832167502852013-03-12T20:12:04.739+00:002013-03-12T20:12:04.739+00:00I have a note here telling me that there were huma...I have a note here telling me that there were human bones (not a cremation) found in the SSE close to Moonrise Major 2500 BCE which was at 140.91 degrees. This person had a mace head with him. My note doesn't tell me where I got this information, but think this was mentioned on one of the Stonehenge programs that have been on lately. I have not seen the latest as yet, can't wait to see what drivel has come out of this.<br /><br />The idea that Durrington Walls was only occupied for 45 years came from the analysis of the pig bones found so far, according to MPP even though very little of Durrington Walls has been excavated and there could be many more animal bones buried there which could possibly show different dates. Seems ridiculous to build a settlement just for seasonal occupation and then only for 45 years. This doesn't ring true.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-64315271674869042682013-03-12T12:45:32.578+00:002013-03-12T12:45:32.578+00:00Yes Tony -- Jim Carter's voice really is rathe...Yes Tony -- Jim Carter's voice really is rather wonderful. Deep and mellow and reassuring -- and of course everything he says MUST be true...BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-64922290607141007372013-03-12T09:44:37.242+00:002013-03-12T09:44:37.242+00:00Brian ,I wasn't suggesting the "incense b...Brian ,I wasn't suggesting the "incense burner " came from Flagstones . The ic in the prog looks like the one found at Stonehenge , a similar one from the same period was found at Flagstones . Both are uncommon as these artefacts are more usually associated with the Bronze Age package .geocurnoreply@blogger.com