tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post6933744970191021520..comments2024-03-28T22:13:17.139+00:00Comments on Stonehenge and the Ice Age: Rhosyfelin -- goodbye to the evidenceBRIAN JOHNhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-82258603154337909222015-09-25T15:40:00.767+01:002015-09-25T15:40:00.767+01:00Brian, WHEN you get round to revising your 2008 &q...Brian, WHEN you get round to revising your 2008 "Bluestone Enigma", hint, hint (following all this comical kerfuffle at Rhosyfelin and sundry other MPP - favoured locations) you may like to use my idea for a title for a Chapter about the goings - on since 2011 by his National Geographic, etc, - sponsored Team:-<br /><br /> GUERILLAS IN THE MISTS<br /><br />......perhaps with suitable atmospheric photograph AND..<br /><br />.....with suitable acknowledgements/ apologies to Diane Fossey, wasn't it, and the well - known actor who played her who also starred in "Alien" and the noble and beleaguered mountain gorillas of Central Africa.TonyHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-4720375278711179282015-09-23T18:06:49.613+01:002015-09-23T18:06:49.613+01:00To make a decent car park at Rhosyfelin you would ...To make a decent car park at Rhosyfelin you would have to flatten those inconvenient rocks. Perhaps they could be ground up for sale via garden centres, or as road fill.<br /><br />Oh, wait a minute. What would the visitors have to look at? Maybe a theme park with local unemployed dressed up as neolithic hunters, They should ask the guys who reinvented Nevern Castle for advice.chris johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16210890033354730381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-36132665827540492922015-09-23T17:37:25.168+01:002015-09-23T17:37:25.168+01:00Ah, Whitland is no good, Chris. Outside the Park ...Ah, Whitland is no good, Chris. Outside the Park and inside Carmarthen CC. Anyway, they already have the Hywel Dda exhibition there -- they must not be greedy. The National Park must make its own good fortune! No doubt toilets can be added as and when...... all they need to do is buy the site, and then there will be easy car parking too.BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-2604432611920843062015-09-23T17:06:21.336+01:002015-09-23T17:06:21.336+01:00Yes, but as I say regularly, there is no parking a...Yes, but as I say regularly, there is no parking and no toilets.<br /><br />The National Park needs to discover more stuff in Whitland. Main line railway links, on the A40, space to build an airport :))chris johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16210890033354730381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-42501280162713309192015-09-23T16:58:38.928+01:002015-09-23T16:58:38.928+01:00Europe's most magnificent Neolithic Quarry add...Europe's most magnificent Neolithic Quarry added to the list of Wales heritage sites?<br />Absolutely, Hi Di Hi! Ho Di Ho!...with Wales's own Miss Pugh to welcome nervous visitors. This could rival Weston - Super - Mare's DismalLand.Good luck. you'll need it.TonyHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-2233269629400464702015-09-23T16:50:57.803+01:002015-09-23T16:50:57.803+01:00There is now an established colony of Ethnoarchaeo...There is now an established colony of Ethnoarchaeologists well established on Easter Island, thousands of miles from civilisation - as - we - know - it either east or west. Alan Wicker - like but minus the sharp suit and shiny shoes, they are said to get on very well with one another, without apparent signs of rivalry, and they tend to cluster together at nightfall, penguin - like, in some form of possibly bizarre, or is it mundane, ritual.TonyHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-35850475659996889252015-09-23T16:46:27.435+01:002015-09-23T16:46:27.435+01:00As you can see on the pic, the picnic table is sti...As you can see on the pic, the picnic table is still visible, as are the stones around it. No doubt it is intended to be the prize exhibit when the National Park opens its exciting new interpretive display here. I have a bad feeling about this -- wouldn't the National Park just LOVE to have Europe's most magnificent Neolithic Quarry added to its list of heritage sites....... they are probably writing their press releases as we speak. BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-87757344923298968832015-09-23T16:45:20.086+01:002015-09-23T16:45:20.086+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-58323865739504773012015-09-23T16:35:27.796+01:002015-09-23T16:35:27.796+01:00Is it the Picnic Table that is restored to its ori...Is it the Picnic Table that is restored to its original state? No longer an orthostat then.<br /><br />The anthropologist in me can see a little band of beaver hunters sitting down for a fireside snack. Somewhere around 3500 BC at a wild guess. Perhaps they left a couple of sharp bits of stone around when clearing the table.chris johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16210890033354730381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-21977730245053614562015-09-23T10:23:23.410+01:002015-09-23T10:23:23.410+01:00An Ethnoarchaeologist? good Lord-- is he differen...An Ethnoarchaeologist? good Lord-- is he different in some way from an Archaeoethnologist? Where will it all end?BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-91096955845055532942015-09-23T08:40:36.212+01:002015-09-23T08:40:36.212+01:00There are two quite different 'schools' fo...There are two quite different 'schools' for archaeologists.<br />In the USA most departments are anthropology with archaeology as a sub-.discipline<br />In Britain Archie depts are stand alone units.<br />Different schools and very difference approaches so far from New it is something rather old.<br />Recently Dr Ixer was shocked to find an old and very dear friend and colleague described as an ethnoarchaeologist. He, of course, has now severed all contact, even now waiting for the hate button on Facebook to become activated and is even wondering if he might be a closet post-processualist. The friend, not Dr Ixer, who does not believe in life beyond pigeonholed artefacts, correctly pigeonholed.<br />M<br />MMyris of Alexandrianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-5277636207931763332015-09-22T21:58:16.217+01:002015-09-22T21:58:16.217+01:00Will try to get a summary of that Current Archaeol...Will try to get a summary of that Current Archaeology article on Stonehenge Facts to you soon, Brian. Computer at home currently misbehaving Big - Time. Also other family concerns requiring attention.TonyHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-35825679432258441142015-09-22T21:11:29.126+01:002015-09-22T21:11:29.126+01:00The trap, or quarry, call it what you will, that q...The trap, or quarry, call it what you will, that quite a few of the 20th - and indeed 21st - Century headline - grabbing archaeologists have fallen into (some perhaps all too willingly) has been to take as gospel the many Myths associated with Stonehenge and its Bluestones. They have fallen headlong into the morass of folk tales, early 20th Century geological misinterpretation and mischief - making, and anthropologically - based comparisons with the likes of Easter Island and South Sea voyages.<br /><br />Universities often now have a united Department of Archaeology AND Anthropology. We end up with tales of the Dreamtime and many archaeologists who have all too vague memories of the drug - fuelled '60s are only too happy to go along with this to bring the masses along with them.TonyHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-70360104079201799042015-09-22T20:44:37.968+01:002015-09-22T20:44:37.968+01:00And those plumbers. They remind me of Watergate.And those plumbers. They remind me of Watergate.chris johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16210890033354730381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-61559981352076104042015-09-22T20:42:08.994+01:002015-09-22T20:42:08.994+01:00Brian, spinning the facts to fit a ruling hypothes...Brian, spinning the facts to fit a ruling hypothesis is the curse of modern day Britain. It would be surprising were the archaeological establishment to behave differently given the cultural context.<br /><br />Rhosyfelin is beginning to look NOT like a quarry. When this season's evidence is as thin as you describe that I sense that we will shortly hear the sound of breaking ranks among the cognoscenti in the circle of trust. The ghost of Piltdown Man looms large with those hoping to spend a lifetime in academia.chris johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16210890033354730381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-36677736894822152802015-09-22T14:35:13.100+01:002015-09-22T14:35:13.100+01:00
The end started c. 25 for me .<br /> The end started c. 25 for me .Geo Curhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03616965043116389325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-81120350424576127252015-09-22T12:36:18.122+01:002015-09-22T12:36:18.122+01:00Old age, Geo. Gets all of us in the end.....Old age, Geo. Gets all of us in the end.....BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-79469017671212482502015-09-22T12:28:04.854+01:002015-09-22T12:28:04.854+01:00Lol , yes of course , Antiquity .
I had just been ...<br /><br />Lol , yes of course , Antiquity .<br />I had just been mentioned a Nature paper elsewhere , well that's my excuse .Geo Curhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03616965043116389325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-412457283832071032015-09-22T12:21:49.880+01:002015-09-22T12:21:49.880+01:00Chris - it's bad science to turn up at a site ...Chris - it's bad science to turn up at a site with a ruling hypothesis in your head, and to twist all that you find into the context that you have determined in advance. Some of the things that have been taken to be "engineering" or "quarrying" features are quite ludicrous, as I think you might agree, having visited the site yourself. Going down that route, you get dangerously close to the manufacturing of evidence and even into scientific fraud. That's a very serious matter. As far as fieldwork in West Wales is concerned, the opinion of some people that the Irish Sea Glacier never reached Stonehenge is immaterial, since other people, who are equally qualified, and stated that it might have done. The evidence is no more or less abundant that that relating to the human transport hypothesis. Zero evidence in support of it, and much to suggest that it is vanishingly unlikely. <br /><br />Given that context, a good scientist would simply turn up at Rhosyfelin and try to find out what's there. I should have thought that any fieldworker, from any discipline, would then take the default position of assuming that the features unearthed are natural unless and until they appear so peculiar that they have to be man-made. Occam's Razor, as you might recall.......BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-86771280964715594732015-09-22T12:07:59.601+01:002015-09-22T12:07:59.601+01:00Geo -- I am disappointed. Was looking forward to ...Geo -- I am disappointed. Was looking forward to a visit to some interesting sites in the company of a nice French lady. Never mind -- a gentleman will do, if he's up for it.<br /><br />Nature? Who's publishing in Nature? Did that, several times, long ago -- this new paper is far too simple for such an elevated journal. Maybe MPP is publishing in Nature? Somebody said it was"Antiquity", which seems rather more likely......BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-87543359970247228952015-09-22T11:18:34.233+01:002015-09-22T11:18:34.233+01:00oooops , missed out .
I wasn't speculating , ...oooops , missed out .<br /><br />I wasn't speculating , I don't know what will be in the Nature paper .I'm happy to wait and find out before making assumptions <br /><br />Btw Prof. Dominque is a bloke .<br />Geo Curhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03616965043116389325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-22178788906963847522015-09-22T11:17:35.745+01:002015-09-22T11:17:35.745+01:00Taking stones from the landscape for use elsewhere...<br />Taking stones from the landscape for use elsewhere can be described as opportunism , maybe local farmers took stones from around CRF and maybe much earlier others did too .I don't see how geomorphologists can prove the negative in either case and don't see how glacial , jungle or desert geomorphologists are necessarily best placed to assess that either .Geo Curhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03616965043116389325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-2018566147412760332015-09-22T10:50:31.906+01:002015-09-22T10:50:31.906+01:00Brian, always good to criticise crap science and o...Brian, always good to criticise crap science and one assumes a lot of debate goes on behind the closed doors of the privileged few with the huge advantage of having more data than we have.<br /><br />I rather agree with Geo that geomorphologists at Rhosyfelin are not likely to change the narrative. The main reason the archaeologists have closed their mind to glaciers is the opinion of those experts they have consulted that the glaciers did not reach Stonehenge. It is not by definition bad science to trust the views of other scientists. Should the geologists come up with new evidence to show that the bluestone might have been dropped close to Stonehenge by a glacier, then those dissenting voices within the circle of trust will have some ammunition. Until then, I expect they will be given short thrift for reopening a debate that has been closed. You would do the same with any time wasters on your projects probably.chris johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16210890033354730381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-42748023414538458402015-09-22T10:44:01.038+01:002015-09-22T10:44:01.038+01:00MPP announced this in the lecture -- without namin...MPP announced this in the lecture -- without naming them. I am not even sure whether they are geomorphologists -- and I think I might prefer the opinions of glacial geomorphologists rather than those who might specialise in jungles and deserts. But let's not speculate here. When our note is published, the evidence will be assessed, and it will all come out in the wash. At least there will be something peer-reviewed and available for scrutiny.<br /><br />I'm sure that if Dominique wants to go and look at this site and others, she will be very welcome. It would be good to have a chat with her. <br /><br />By the way, local farmers who have collected stones have gathered them up from all over the place, in an entirely opportunistic fashion.BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-72474141073040550562015-09-22T10:21:15.279+01:002015-09-22T10:21:15.279+01:00“Apparently assorted geomorphologists who have vis...“Apparently assorted geomorphologists who have visited the site with MPP have informed him that the rock face is artificial rather than natural. I do not have a clue which geomorphologists these might have been, but all I can say is that those who have visited the site in my company have been unanimous in stating that they see NO traces of human involvement in the shaping of the rock face. It is, in their view and mine, entirely natural. “<br /><br />So we have a potential disagreement between geomorphologists .<br /><br />It is accepted as almost certain that in the modern period locals removed /quarried numerous stones for gate posts , buildings etc in the Presceli area , if some if not the majority of the sites where they did so can’t be confirmed by some geomorphologists why should they be considered capable of recognising the much earlier removal /quarrying of stone . ? Why should we accept the opinion of an assorted group of geomorphologists in recognising potential anthropomorphic stone removal ,what are their credentials for making such an assessment ? Wouldn’t it make more sense to have the opinion of geomorphologists who are actually experienced in this particular area e.g. Dominique Sellier . ?<br /><br />Geo Curhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03616965043116389325noreply@blogger.com