tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post5758737417581725957..comments2024-03-28T22:13:17.139+00:00Comments on Stonehenge and the Ice Age: Stonehenge Lecture -- 31st JanuaryBRIAN JOHNhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comBlogger80125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-81924028110487699792015-02-07T15:11:56.270+00:002015-02-07T15:11:56.270+00:00S'truth, Bruce, or should I say Dame Edna, how...S'truth, Bruce, or should I say Dame Edna, how could I treat a poor maiden so? Well,it's all in the best possible cause, the Search for Truth!TonyHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-6147073211694697442015-02-06T21:55:12.171+00:002015-02-06T21:55:12.171+00:00Tony, your charm just may beguile me, for your arr...Tony, your charm just may beguile me, for your arrow has fallen short and pierced my heart.<br /><br />Patience is the watch-word.Aunt Ednanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-25908841901907410192015-02-05T21:17:40.644+00:002015-02-05T21:17:40.644+00:00Dame Edna, "Twist in the tail"/ "lo...Dame Edna, "Twist in the tail"/ "long ago when they used to horse - shoe pigs",?!?! What porcine presentations should we expect? Is their provenance proved to be Preselli, and their destination definitely Durrington Walls? After beef on the hoof, may we expect peripatetic porkies?! Am I on the right track, or has my arrow fallen well short?TonyHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-14298275496775951292015-02-04T22:52:14.139+00:002015-02-04T22:52:14.139+00:00I was prevented from attending the Devizes Town Ha...I was prevented from attending the Devizes Town Hall talk by a long - term health condition that decided to interfere with my best - laid plans, Chris. This cold weather doesn't help.TonyHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-53363904658677097752015-02-02T22:16:55.722+00:002015-02-02T22:16:55.722+00:00The last time I teased anyone was a long time ago ...The last time I teased anyone was a long time ago when they use to horse-shoe pigs. I'm afraid it's way past my bed time and my Horlicks is going cold. <br />More on this subject when the time is right, no jokey.Aunt Ednanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-90875918018547582312015-02-02T19:30:13.593+00:002015-02-02T19:30:13.593+00:00Now then, Aunt Edna, you are teasing us again. Com...Now then, Aunt Edna, you are teasing us again. Come on -- spill the beans. You know it makes sense, and we count ourselves as very discreet on this blog.. BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-89554244665903629982015-02-02T19:22:23.833+00:002015-02-02T19:22:23.833+00:00In the not to distant future we may all be present...In the not to distant future we may all be presented with a 'twist in the tail' regarding quarries and bluestones. Aunt Ednanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-12956805295311827402015-02-01T22:52:39.728+00:002015-02-01T22:52:39.728+00:00So what happened Tony?So what happened Tony?chris johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16210890033354730381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-38826038223278879452015-01-30T15:13:16.248+00:002015-01-30T15:13:16.248+00:00Chris,
It may help you to know I never argue for ...Chris,<br /><br />It may help you to know I never argue for the sake of arguing! <br /><br />Please don't take this statement as an argument.<br /><br />KostasConstantinos Ragazasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-57647010608529968302015-01-30T13:03:49.606+00:002015-01-30T13:03:49.606+00:00Richard III, like another contributor, spent many ...Richard III, like another contributor, spent many years in Leicester, mostly in a car park admittedly.....TonyHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-73464181382996951182015-01-30T11:00:50.504+00:002015-01-30T11:00:50.504+00:00Kostas,
Your points remind of a troll, arguing for...Kostas,<br />Your points remind of a troll, arguing for the sake of argument. Not what I want to do today, sorry.chris johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16210890033354730381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-56390695801804781152015-01-30T00:08:47.633+00:002015-01-30T00:08:47.633+00:00Chris,
I have no doubt chips from orthostat dress...Chris,<br /><br />I have no doubt chips from orthostat dressing can be found in the "debitage". But to claim ALL of the stones found in the "debitage" were the result of stone dressing is a <i>chip too far</i>. <br /><br />The Rhosyfelin rhyolite chips (and others) in the "debitage" CAN NOT be traced to ANY of the Stonehenge stones sampled! Therefore, these chips MAY NOT have resulted from stone dressing! <br /><br />Simple logic, Chris! No experts needed to do your thinking!<br /><br />KostasConstantinos Ragazasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-48606187498276216692015-01-29T22:15:15.990+00:002015-01-29T22:15:15.990+00:00What has Richard, third of that name, said.
He was...What has Richard, third of that name, said.<br />He was more familiar with quarrels than quarries.<br />MMyris of Alexandrianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-10448418644916500702015-01-29T20:41:59.668+00:002015-01-29T20:41:59.668+00:00Brian: re PERSONAL COMMENT
I take your point. Wit...Brian: re PERSONAL COMMENT<br /><br />I take your point. With my heading, I was really seeking to remind everyone what the Origin for this, now 65+ commented Post was!! viz, a Lecture on Stonehenge in a One - Horse Town**<br /><br />We do hear quite a lot from Apollo, various Folk Singers, Richard III and sundry others here. Ah, the Rich Tapestry of Life!!<br /><br />** Devizes does, in fact, possess MANY Shire horses, used to pull the Wadworth's Brewery carts around, alas, still - Victorian Wiltshire.TonyHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-43692704450042952202015-01-29T18:31:06.192+00:002015-01-29T18:31:06.192+00:00Kostas, perhaps you never did any work on the neol...Kostas, perhaps you never did any work on the neolithic so please accept the benefit of the doubt, and give some respect to people who have seen thousands and thousands of stones. It is early on people learn to identify the signs of human working.<br /><br />Similarly one learns to tell the difference between frost damage, plough damage, intentional tool production, and retouching after use (or whatever the English phrase is). Perhaps more listening and learning is in order? And less talking.<br /><br />chris johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16210890033354730381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-67946252424237398962015-01-29T17:16:17.529+00:002015-01-29T17:16:17.529+00:00Myris,
"Kostas why care you so about the deb...Myris,<br /><br /><i>"Kostas why care you so about the debitage?"</i><br /><br />Because I care about sensible truth and objective reason. The question that has not been sensibly explained is:<br /><br /><i> How have all the various erratic stone flakes/fragments found in the Stonehenge area got to be at Stonehenge, if these do not trace to any of the orthostats at Stonehenge? </i><br /><br />Labeling such stones "debitage" and defining "debitage" as stone wastage from stone dressing is intellectually dishonest and closer to <i> cloak and mirrors</i> reasoning! What is the irrefutable evidence such stone flakes are anthropogenic? This is only an assumption!<br /><br />KostasConstantinos Ragazasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-46439884116853160822015-01-29T11:53:24.193+00:002015-01-29T11:53:24.193+00:00Tony -- I thought all the comments on this blog we...Tony -- I thought all the comments on this blog were personal comments? Or are some of them submitted by higher beings that are not of this earth? Greek and Egyptian gods, Aunt Ednas sending messages from Heaven, or the CIA just checking on what we are all up to? Anyway, hope the lecture hall is packed!!<br />BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-27253881753265840242015-01-29T11:40:50.870+00:002015-01-29T11:40:50.870+00:00Bloody auto-correct.
"Frontage" oooh aaa...Bloody auto-correct.<br />"Frontage" oooh aaaaa misses!<br />The word that I typed was Debitage<br />M <br />The hieroglyphs for debitage and frontage are very different.Myrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-25372220110803180952015-01-29T11:35:31.759+00:002015-01-29T11:35:31.759+00:00PERSONAL COMMENT
I am delighted that this Post, os...PERSONAL COMMENT<br />I am delighted that this Post, ostensibly about the English Heritage Lecture on Stonehenge, this coming Saturday at Devizes Town Hall, near the superb Wiltshire Heritage Museum, has reached at least 60 comments. Pity it is not a larger venue! Perhaps it will be repeated around the country, say London, Cardiff, Bristol and Southampton - and beyond!!TonyHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-22122618256432930152015-01-29T09:36:27.141+00:002015-01-29T09:36:27.141+00:00Frontage can be any size. The 8kg LP sst is debita...Frontage can be any size. The 8kg LP sst is debitage.<br />Restrict bluestone to any non sarsen lithology used in making an orthostat. Saves time and is clear and concise.<br />Yes were the LP sst Cambrian it would widen the geography. We do not know BUT we might soon get an age from the large block.<br />MMyris of Alexandrianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-472389265287475322015-01-29T08:59:56.667+00:002015-01-29T08:59:56.667+00:00If the sandstones are Cambrian, they are probably ...If the sandstones are Cambrian, they are probably from NW Pembrokeshire. If they are Ordovician, they could be from NE Pembrokeshire.<br /><br />I have never argued that recently introduced rubbish on the site should be counted as bluestone debris. You are being a bit unfair to imply that. If something is clearly adventitious and modern, or introduced as roadstone or whatever, away with it! Adventitious modern stuff is usually pretty easy to spot. I have been doing it all my life in looking at Quaternary sites. No -- I am talking about medium-sized stuff in proper archaeological contexts. And I fail to see the logic of including just the largest chunks of rock (orthostats) and the smallest fragments (debitage) and referring to them as bluesrones while omitting to attach any importance to whatever is between those two extremes. <br /><br />Who says that my definition of "bluestone" is not acceptable? Have the thought police pronounced upon it, in their wisdom?<br /><br />Sure, the bluestones -- of all shapes and sizes -- were brought to Stonehenge by man. that much is obvious. The question is this: how far were they carried?<br />BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-10201568815170597802015-01-29T08:45:05.037+00:002015-01-29T08:45:05.037+00:00True the mining mag article was that, an article, ...True the mining mag article was that, an article, however it figures the stone that is from orthostat SH48 from the Stonehenge Greater Cursus.<br />That collection of stones has 48, CRyf rhyolite perhaps 38 but no dolerite. It is intimately associated with Stonehenge.<br />Ah you may be correct Dr Ixer has a problem with west and east and once placed the Inka empire in the Pacific by confusing the two. The editors caught that.<br />Nobody yet knows where the LP sst is from. Ixer and Turner may say something.<br />The debitage is flaked, some is retouched,and there are axehead rough outs, few, Read Pitts' appendix to I and B heelstone paper.<br />Brian your use of bluestone is not acceptable or accepted. New Age rock crystal pendants are not bluestone. Your wanting a cast of thousands weakens your case.<br />It is not confusion it is not even gaberdine swine and pearls but not reading what is written.<br />This is not Mills and Boon,but as our Hilda would say 'science Stanley science'.<br />Kostas why care you so about the debitage?<br />It is straightforward, the bluestones were brought to Stonehenge, probably by man, jostled around a lot, hacked about a bit and left.<br />MMyris of Alexandrianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-5745867629358267522015-01-29T08:04:16.642+00:002015-01-29T08:04:16.642+00:00Kostas -- you may quote my wise words whenever you...Kostas -- you may quote my wise words whenever you like. They are on the public record!BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-14495754968206701362015-01-29T03:53:02.872+00:002015-01-29T03:53:02.872+00:00Myris,
"a flake from orthostat 48" shou...Myris,<br /><br /><i>"a flake from orthostat 48"</i> should read "a flake of same type of stone as orthostat 48".<br /><br /><i>"flakes mean flaking ie hard struck"</i> whether by Nature or Man.<br /><br /><i>"Most of the Stonehenge debitage is flaked ANTHROPOGENICALLY flaked."</i> What exactly is the evidence for that? This is only an opinion and not a proven fact. <br /><br /><i>"The debitage was produced on Salisbury Plain"</i>. The debitage is a word you choose to use for stone fragments found at Stonehenge etc. But the word does not prove the function.<br /><br />KostasConstantinos Ragazasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-17272764973821903782015-01-28T23:25:15.505+00:002015-01-28T23:25:15.505+00:00No Myris, the plot is not lost, but confused. Par...No Myris, the plot is not lost, but confused. Partly this is because you refer to orthostats as bluestones, and I refer to anything foreign to the Stonehenge area (lumps,fragments, cobbles, pebbles and whatever) as bluestones. You pays your money and you takes your choice. I am sure I have seen a ref in one of the geol papers to a possible source for those Lower Palaeozoic Sandstone fragments (one of them weighing over 8 kg) in NW Pembrokeshire -- note that Preseli is in the NE. How close is close? And please don't cite that Mining Mag article, since it was, I assume, just a bit of frivolous fun.......BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.com