tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post269132278010495676..comments2024-03-28T22:13:17.139+00:00Comments on Stonehenge and the Ice Age: Carn Goedog -- have the quarry hunters gone completely bonkers?BRIAN JOHNhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-23713659978609954642015-09-25T12:49:27.606+01:002015-09-25T12:49:27.606+01:00Don't miss Proff GW's lecture on the 7th N...Don't miss Proff GW's lecture on the 7th November at Pembs College entitled 'Magic Mountain' !Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10888760992908241806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-47730807057779536212015-09-24T06:50:14.109+01:002015-09-24T06:50:14.109+01:00Hi Dave and Chris if you would like to get in touc...Hi Dave and Chris if you would like to get in touch here is a link to my FB page.. https://m.facebook.com/hugh.thomas.773?ref=bookmarks<br />Failing this my email addy is hughhug " AT" aol " DOT"com (all lower case remove "AT " and "DOT " and replace with @ and .) <br /> If anyone wishes to send me a friend request on FB please feel free there is a sizeable Preseli gallery on there with many atmospheric photos to enjoy.... <br />All the best <br /><br />HughAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00811456895391770262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-23779333160757643642015-09-23T16:23:48.975+01:002015-09-23T16:23:48.975+01:00Hugh, thanks for the link. Next time I am on the ...Hugh, thanks for the link. Next time I am on the hills I'll explore in this direction. Let's keep each other posted.chris johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16210890033354730381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-5603964214018662122015-09-23T08:52:53.114+01:002015-09-23T08:52:53.114+01:00Hi Hugh,
I've been looking at that from a dis...Hi Hugh,<br /><br />I've been looking at that from a distance for a while, but never had time to actually reach it, despite being up there a fortnight ago. I must make sure to get there soon. Is it as distinct as it looks on Google Earth? There is another circular earthwork with similar topography (sloping ground facing east) at 51'56.498N 4'39.155W, but not really visible on Google Earth.<br /><br />I've been contemplating a bit of survey on Talfynnydd when I have the time as it is easy for me to get to. Perhaps we should exchange contact details?<br /><br />DaveDave Maynardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14162915474983638825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-51824178091013500992015-09-22T22:41:08.701+01:002015-09-22T22:41:08.701+01:00There are five (5) chief members of the Stonehenge...There are five (5) chief members of the Stonehenge Riverside Project "Inner Sanctum" who have their names on the latest Stonehenge book, this one released by the Council For British Archaeology: MPP, Pollard, Richards, Thomas and Welham. An alternative name for this horse - shoe cluster might be the Blue Flames (sincere apologies to Georgie Fame).<br /><br />Perhaps in the future they will be known as the Infamous Five (who kept a VERY tight ship, could see no OTHER ships approaching them across the ice when they put their telescopes to their blind eyes, but held very firm, steadfast, and stubborn as Emperors with No Clothes to their Infamous Ruling Hypothesis).TonyHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-49810138655213938742015-09-22T21:31:25.572+01:002015-09-22T21:31:25.572+01:00Hi Brian the ring at Talfynydd is at 51'57.252...Hi Brian the ring at Talfynydd is at 51'57.252 N 4'43.111 W , it is on a fairly steep slope with a curious ditch around its northern perimeter . If this is a ceremonial site its aspect seems to be towards the north and east as in other directions the hill seems to fill the sky there is a fallen standing stone near its middle.<br /> Talfynydd is crammed ,a burial chamber with uprights and capstone not on maps, a subtly positioned standing stone once spotted from below becomes the dominant hi point of the craggs . A curious site with a propped sound stone that makes a wonderful tone when struck , also right next to this is what looks like an altar stone that unmistakeably faces the Gors Vawr stone circle . <br />A huge boulder that someone has been very brave and built a shelter underneath and right down at the edge of Cors Tewgyll bog a settlement with a burial chamber, roundhouses, platforms etc. I did hear this was mainly bronze age but given the longevity of the outcrops could well have been in constant use . There is also a huge boulder balancing precariously on the steep hillside, must have come from somewhere above or is a glacial erratic dumped there....Hugh Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-63652139059247616412015-09-22T20:32:22.789+01:002015-09-22T20:32:22.789+01:00Talfynydd is seriously interesting. Masses of fea...Talfynydd is seriously interesting. Masses of features up there-- every time I walk around on this long spur, I seem to stumble across old walls and boundaries, and other strange and unrecorded features. Bronze Age? Iron Age? BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-27296752445798356662015-09-22T19:11:49.562+01:002015-09-22T19:11:49.562+01:00Hi Brian, I hope I didn't cause any consternat...Hi Brian, I hope I didn't cause any consternation at all, certainly not my intention to do so.<br /><br />It find it almost comforting that two groups of experts presented with the same evidence can have totally opposing views. Especially when that evidence concerns something like a possible quarry, the ID of which many (or me, at least!) might expect to be a reasonably straightforward matter for the highly qualified people involved. <br />So I'd definitely admit to a level of 'gullible'.<br /><br />And let's not forget, at the most basic level, one group of these highly qualified individuals are completely and utterly wrong! <br /><br />Similarly, the glacier question. To my mind the evidence must be either there or not? <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Evergreennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-32272870870418497192015-09-22T18:54:46.925+01:002015-09-22T18:54:46.925+01:00I am intrigued by this story of an "intact ci...I am intrigued by this story of an "intact circle being moved lock stock from west Wales to Salisbury" . I had never heard of this story before I began exploring the Preselau hills. Time again people I had walked with seemed to touch on various versions of it , and one , who I do not know if they were pulling my leg even went as far as mentioning character names involved, hope you are ready for this "King Afr and his shamen Myrddin " who lived thousands of years before Arthur and Merlin of pop culture King Afr having a stronghold at Foel Drygarn and Carn Alw was Myrddin's center of alchemy and magic... ( Dont shoot the messenger please it is not my fault:)... Now this fine story teller mentioned Whitland also mentioned Nantgaredig and most logically of all mentioned a site across Cors Tewgyll valley from Carn Menyn on the northern extreme of Craig Talfynnydd, I was intrigued by this last site and set out to hunt it down and duly found a ring bank around 30 meters across with a single toppled stone there,it is visible on Google Earth.<br /> If nothing else it could make a fine basis for a story . Also talking of northern Preselau slope platforms the circle north of Carn Goeddog was to have been dug this visit by MPP' s team but it did not happen. The dwellings at the base of Carn Goeddog are not Neolithic but medieval . I spent a day in the company of MPP and although I kept my views to myself,I asked a lot of questions and listened , he really is a decent gent, friendly, helpful and hard working it is clear he is enthused by what he does. Oh and by the way I have recently found another circular site to the northeast of the Carn Goeddog ring and two large ring marks in fields bear Mirianog Ganol and Crwg Y Hwch... It is going to keep me very busy.... ;)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00811456895391770262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-49024949174024927292015-09-22T18:27:05.103+01:002015-09-22T18:27:05.103+01:00Been thinking about Evergreen's points and my ...Been thinking about Evergreen's points and my references to gullible and ill-informed listeners and readers. Apologies if anybody feels insulted by those words! Let me explain. I should have qualified my comments and been more careful. By "ill-informed" listeners at lectures, I meant "ill-informed about the site being discussed". I did NOT mean that the listeners at MPP's lectures -- or mine for that matter -- are generally ignorant about science and the state of the world. I did use the word "gullible" advisedly because I think that we are all rather gullible when we attend lectures on topics that are unfamiliar -- I would be certainly be as gullible as the next man if I was sat in an audience listening to a talk on astrophysics or microbiology........<br /><br />Anyway, I have changed the wording of the final para of the blog entry above, and added a word of apology at the end. Can't be fairer than that. BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-13086370688339023252015-09-22T12:34:14.126+01:002015-09-22T12:34:14.126+01:00Objectivity, Myris? I recall that you announced i...Objectivity, Myris? I recall that you announced in 2012 Rhosyfelin was a quarry, indicating that from that point on your objectivity was somewhat compromised. At least I have tried to stick to the evidence on the ground, and to separate it out from wider assumptions relating to long-distance transport. This blog is packed with evidence, and I have invited scrutiny and debate -- that seems to me be be a reasonable demonstration of objectivity. On the other hand, consider the behaviour of the archaeologists. Have they been testing a working hypothesis? Not in my book -- they have simply been working very hard at confirming a ruling hypothsesis.<br /><br />Not to worry -- all will be revealed. If their evidence is convincing and incontrovertible, so be it. If it is lousy, those involved in peer reviewing it will no doubt say so. BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-47372197508707086472015-09-22T11:02:55.164+01:002015-09-22T11:02:55.164+01:00Have you really forgotten how science works even a...Have you really forgotten how science works even archyscience.<br />You have a theory, you sell that theory or rather the testing of it to a funding body and you go ahead.<br />Why is I think x and y are quarries worse than I think the higgs boson exists.<br />You have lost objectivity.<br />Years ago a sage said the method of transport cannot be determined but if a quarry or quarries are found the game is over.<br />Archies have been testing that proposal.<br />You disagree with their answer which for most of them has been yes.<br />M<br />You might find a couple of papers in Mining and Quarrying in the ancient Andes very instructive. Especially the Lake Titicaca papers.Myris of Alexandrianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-18924684516169621532015-09-21T20:33:09.902+01:002015-09-21T20:33:09.902+01:00Returning to my original point about a whole team ...Returning to my original point about a whole team of maybe 30 people all singing from the same hymn sheet and maybe all being affected by "quarry mania", I am rather intrigued that all these people (and many others) presumably subscribe to the narrative presented by prof MPP to the public just the other day: Josh Pollard, Kate Welham, Colin Richards, Richard Bevins, Rob Ixer, Charly French, Mike Allen, Adam Stanford and Andrew Chamberlain. There are probably others as well, who will be down as joint authors when the big "Antiquity" paper comes out in December. I'll hazard a guess and assume that the geologists will be in there in a slightly semi-detached fashion as the contributors of an Annex. But of all the plumbers and academics who make up the core of the research team who have worked on the digs, surely there must be some who have asked a few questions, raised a few doubts, and pointed out that a lot of stones and a few radiocarbon dates do not constitute a quarry?BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-1839879234925128202015-09-21T20:18:31.658+01:002015-09-21T20:18:31.658+01:00Myris -- there are several playing fields being pl...Myris -- there are several playing fields being played on here. And who's not listening? I'm listening very carefully, while not necessarily agreeing!<br /><br />How can the research designs for Rhosyfelin and Carn Goedog have been well vetted if the team simply turns up and starts searching for evidence of Neolithic engineering methods without even asking themselves whether there really are quarries at these two places? No research design should ever be accepted if it has at its core a ruling hypothesis which has NEVER been shown to be remotely reliable.BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-34104491650242341002015-09-21T20:12:08.885+01:002015-09-21T20:12:08.885+01:00Jon -- sadly, the Lady Marcher (our feudal mistres...Jon -- sadly, the Lady Marcher (our feudal mistress in these parts) died a few years ago, and the barony land now falls to her grandson to look after. He is quite a young man still. There is a Steward of the Barony who looks after day to day matters, probably including digs and temporary toilet tents.BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-57639963471689674492015-09-21T19:50:41.120+01:002015-09-21T19:50:41.120+01:00Until some sort of research is published to show t...Until some sort of research is published to show that it serves some sort of purpose, there is only marginal justification for a second dig site (at Carn Geodog).<br /><br />Despite claims to the contrary, the public does have an interest (the land is in a national park). Perhaps it would be a good time for Ms Hawkesworth to review what is being done?Jon Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11264966739582178631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-63107121259059895852015-09-21T12:54:04.098+01:002015-09-21T12:54:04.098+01:00Some bright spark should offer to do it for free, ...Some bright spark should offer to do it for free, or for out-of-pocket expenses and a commitment to mention their name in every press release, book and other publication. It would be great advertisingchris johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16210890033354730381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-89505779573631687002015-09-21T11:25:01.117+01:002015-09-21T11:25:01.117+01:00This is a bit of Kostamongering (not listening and...This is a bit of Kostamongering (not listening and changing in the playing fields).<br />We are in a time of flux when it is thought that open access is good (of course it is not it leads to urban myths, the closing down of public baths and the ill-informed thinking their opinions have value).<br />The contract is between the funding body and the academics, not the huddled watching masses. Now as I say that is changing, see the rise of pseudo-chairs in the Russell Group. Prof of the Public understanding etc - Dr, woops Prof, Bellemey was the first and that Scottish Coastal guy the most recent.<br />We both remember trying to get funding from NERC and how stringent that was, I suspect it is even worse now. <br />The research design would, I am sure, have been vetted well and harshly, it is not to your liking but the research was not intended for your liking, it was archaeological. <br />On a related more positive note the cosmogenic idea is a very smart and ?expensive idea.<br />Some work on CRyf has been costed at £3000 a pop/sample.<br />M<br /><br />Myris of Alexandrianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-17357639709915957072015-09-21T09:17:06.802+01:002015-09-21T09:17:06.802+01:00Not sure that's a very sensible comparison, My...Not sure that's a very sensible comparison, Myris. ".....academics taking money and intending their results for their peer group..." That's not the issue, Myris. The issue is to do with research design and the scientific method. Somebody should have sorted that out back in 2011, instead of which we are now in 2015, and the fantasy that existed then has grown like Topsy. Where was the scrutiny?BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-35762056858939688552015-09-20T22:46:10.233+01:002015-09-20T22:46:10.233+01:00What really gets my goat is that academic Glacial ...What really gets my goat is that academic Glacial Geomorphologists and Archaeologists all work, by and large, for publicly - funded Universities. Excuse me for being naïve, but I thought the clue was in the UNI part of UNIversities. Is there not an opportunity for both sides of the argument to get together leading to all their specialities working as part of a MULTI - DISCIPLINARY TEAM?!?!<br /><br />After all, if we may have books and debates between Scientists, Atheists and Theologians about the God Factor, why may we not have something similarly erudite and respectful going on about the so - called Bluestone Enigma??!<br /><br />The Human Transport hypothesis, if allowed to sustain itself without reference to other aspects of scientific knowledge, is like a juddering juggernaut thundering down the road without a care for pedestrians or smaller vehicles. TonyHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-32781471949161347392015-09-20T22:25:33.138+01:002015-09-20T22:25:33.138+01:00I dearly hope and trust that Mike Pitts, Editor of...I dearly hope and trust that Mike Pitts, Editor of the influential "British Archaeology" will notice that there are still two sides in the Bluestone: Stonehenge discussions. Mike Pitts seems to be a very careful and analytical archaeologist - turned - journalist. He has also dug near the Heelstone at Stonehenge. Let's hope he follows carefully what some of us are promoting, and that this "Minority Report" gains some credence as at least a hypothesis worthy of mote serious condideration, after the Rhosyfelin excavations of the archaeologists have ended, and glacologists and geomorphologists are putting forward their alternative explanations which may be followed up soon with scientific investigations. We have an increasingly well - educated general public who deserve to be treated with a lot more respect.TonyHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-159205039959345972015-09-20T22:14:05.966+01:002015-09-20T22:14:05.966+01:00Thank you for expanding on your previous comments ...Thank you for expanding on your previous comments regarding Whitland and Lampeter Velfrey and surrounding area, and your related points. More generally, as far as Mike Parker Pearson's Teams are concerned, his Stonehenge Riverside Project folk with the linked Stones of Stonehenge Project are restricted in their thinking by their basis: their Ruling Hypothesis that the glacial transportation hypothesis is not worthy of consideration in their researches.<br /><br />Some of us follow Brian here on this Blog in finding their choice of COMPLETELY ignoring the possibility of glaciation being a component in what occurred Way Back When, as itself very disrespectful. Whilst we can see that their choice of their Ruling Hypothesis is easy to understand as it probably goes a long way to enable the "MPP People" to obtain plentiful funding, I think it is highly disrespectful, not to us Bloggers on this site, but to all the Joes and Josephines in the General Public who deserve them to at least acknowledge that we too, have our point of view which is worthy of consideration, even if the "MPP People" aren't considering it IN DETAIL. That is why I have said before that I mourned the passing of "Time Team", its late archaeologist - in - chief, Mick Aston, and most of all, its attempts at WORKING DIALOGUE between the participants including Sir Tony Robinson as the benign Presenter. There, at least, we had rather more of a balance between "Showing" and "Telling"!!TonyHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-60625453285452421032015-09-20T19:59:53.344+01:002015-09-20T19:59:53.344+01:00With respect to future work, the good news is that...With respect to future work, the good news is that several senior geomorphologists have suggested that Rhosyfelin and Carn Goedog are prime candidates for cosmogenic dating work -- in order to sort out the rather fundamental disagreements that have now come to the surface about the features to be seen on the crags, and their ages. Funding would have to be found, and Prof MPP is apparently agreeable to work being done -- but of course it would have to be very carefully coordinated with respect to both sampling procedures and the techniques used. BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-6812606062367124832015-09-20T19:53:16.996+01:002015-09-20T19:53:16.996+01:00Hi Dave
Is there any particular reason why there ...Hi Dave<br /><br /><i>Is there any particular reason why there should be a moratorium on excavation?</i><br /><br />Good question. My view is very similar to Chris's. I don't get to this site very often these days so difficult to go into detail.Jon Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11264966739582178631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1228690739485734684.post-7557790293241413592015-09-20T18:54:53.044+01:002015-09-20T18:54:53.044+01:00Following on Chris's point, let me make one th...Following on Chris's point, let me make one thing clear. I would never for a moment think of offering any personal criticism of anybody -- either a researcher or a contributor to this blog. I have only met Prof MPP very briefly, and he seemed to be a perfectly pleasant and affable chap, as others would agree. If I appear to criticise him, what I am going after is not his personality but his method of doing research, which I do not like at all.BRIAN JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00413447032454568083noreply@blogger.com